Leaderboard

Afternoon all. I thought I would share a bit of a story that happened to me this weekend, in the hope that it will help some others if the same thing happens to them. The model it concerns is any 300C with the Mercedes 3 litre V6 diesel. I'm guessing the newer models with the VM diesel will be totally different. So there we are, on the way to Wakefield from Essex where we live, merrily trotting along the motorway. All of a sudden the dashboard starts to chime repeatedly (as if i've left the headlights on and got out), the engine cuts out completely, and on the dashboard are the engine management light, and the red lightening bolt, with a reverse bracket either side (see attached photo). We coast to a stop onto the hard shoulder, and i try to restart the car. It turns over and over, but refuses to fire up. The missus gets on the phone to the RAC, and we're told there's roughly a two hour wait, so this gives me a bit of time to do some Googling before the patrol arrives. Now then, if you refer to the handbook, it clearly states (even in the diesel supplement) that the lightening bolt light indicates there is a fault with the "Electronic Throttle Control". This is utter nonsense. As it turns out, on the diesel models only, this light refers to a fault with either the Swirl Flap Motor, or the Turbo Actuator. Annoyingly this isnt listed in any of the handbooks that come with the car. Poor show Chrysler! Whenever you turn the ignition on in the car, you can see the arm of the turbo actuator raise up. So if this is the problem, then its very easy to diagnose. I tried this little test, and sure enough, the turbo actuator arm wasn't popping up when my wife turned the ignition on, so naturally I thought this was the problem. Sadly I was wrong. What had happened to my car was this.... Over time, the seal around the air intake on the front of the turbo degrades. This allows a small amount of oil to drip onto the swirl flap motor, which is situated directly below. (very poor design). This oil had eventually seeped inside the motor, causing it to short out. This short had instantly popped fuse number 15 under the bonnet, which in turn had caused the engine to shut down while doing 70mph to protect itself. I didn't have the handbook in the car with me sadly, so searching on the internet just have me fuse diagrams of the petrol models, which on those shows its for the injectors. Again as it turns out, fuse 15 in the front fuse box does completely different things on the diesel models. It protects the following.... A/C Clutch, A/C Pressure regulator, Crankcase Vent Heater, EGR Valve, Engine Control Module, Fuel Pump, Glow Plug Module, Swirl Flap Motor, Oxygen sensors.. So I replaced the blown fuse with a spare 20 amp, and the car fired straight up. It was now in limp mode, and showing the EML and Lightening light, but it was drive-able up to about 80 mph, albeit a bit slow getting there. By this time, the RAC man had arrived. Now there is nothing worse that someone interfering when a pro is at work, so when he arrived, I left him to it, and he plugged the diagnostics in, and it threw up a ton of errors all related to things connected to this fuse. All except the swirl flap motor. He was a bit confused at first, but then I mentioned that I think it might be the swirl flap motor. He hooked up all his testing gear to it, ran a load of tests, and sure enough confirmed to me that the motor was dead. He then cleared the ECU codes, started the car, and only then did it throw up a specific Swirl Flap related error. HE gave me some spare fuses, and after a quick road test, we were on our merry way albeit in limp mode. Now to fixing it. The cheapest place I could find to supply and fit a new motor quoted £575 plus VAT. The motor is just over £100, but the labour involved is a joke. Anything that is situated inside the VEE of the engine (Swirl Flap Motor, Oil Cooler) etc needs major open heart surgery to fix it. Annoyingly both the motor and the cooler seals have known faults, so they couldn't be in a worse place! If you fancy forking out all that money to have the motor replaced, then that is no doubt the best way in the long run, however there is a quick fix for £1.99 and YES it does work perfectly. Get yourself some 4K7 resistors off of ebay, they are £1.99 for 50. Remove the engine cover, then remove the intake pipe that runs from the airbox to the front of the turbo. Right below the turbo, you will see a black box. This is the offending motor. On the right of the motor is a multi plug held in with a grey clip. Remove the metal bracket above the plug, and pop the plug off. Grab a resistor, and bend the legs in such a way that they will fit snugly into the two centre holes in the plug. Theres 4 in total. Once you have put the resistor in, and you can confirm its in there properly. Tape it up with electrical tape so the resistor wont fall out. Replace the metal bracket, and the air intake pipe, leaving the plug sticking up so you can get to it again in the future if you need to. Then start up the car, and stand back in amazement as both the engine management light and the lightening bolt lights extinguish, and the car comes back out of limp mode. Take the car for a drive, and you will see that it drives as good as new. What you have done here, is fool the car into thinking the swirl flap motor is working again. WHen in fact its now disconnected. You shouldnt notice any difference in performance or fuel economy at all. The emissions may be up slightly when cold is all. So to summarise, if your car cuts out with the lightening bolt on. 1) Coast to a stop 2) Curse, swear, have a fag, but don't despair 3) Check fuse 15 in the front fuse box, and replace 4) Start the car and drive home in limp mode - The car will do upto 80mph 5) Order your resistors from Ebay, making sure they are the 4K7 type 6) Still use your car while you are waiting for them to be delivered, remembering that it wont pull away as quick as usual 7) Fit the resistor at the weekend in the rain 8) Stand back, chest puffed out, hands on hips, telling the neighbours you've just saved almost 700 quid :-)

Yes Nello, it is a Limited, cream leather interior, heated seats but not electric which I find strange, changed the cabin filter today the one that came out was FULL!!! huge sunroof which also was unexpected, I thought it was just a panoramic roof! My 500X returned 48mpg in town driving and Yes sport mode is entertaining, have you found the 'G' meter?? Sorry the interior photos are poor.

Hi, hopefully this car is going to be mine! The low mileage is due to it being a Guernsey car, so low miles but perhaps a bit more clutch abuse. I've put a deposit on it, just waiting now for the dealer to get a UK registration & MOT for it. I would say it hasn't seen many harsh winters and salty roads etc., however I suppose it has lived in a coastal environment as Guernsey is so small you can't really get away from the sea. I couldn't find any corrosion though, there's a tiny mark on the n/s/r bumper up where it meets the wing and signs of it being stood about (leaves & cobwebs around the under bonnet scuttle area etc) but other than that the exterior is lovely, the wheels & interior are pretty much immaculate. As a long time Lancia fan & owner of an original Delta this one will be getting the re-badge treatment to remove the C-word!

Electric Windows seem to be a bit of a bone of contention. Don't let a seller tell you "It's probably just a fuse" if one of your windows doesn't work, there are no fuses. I have spoken to a couple of other Voyager users and they say the same. Keep the window tracks oiled so there is no resistance for window going up and down. Seems once the tracks either end dry up, the motors slow down and that's when problems can start. I use some 3 in one oil, not WD40, and my once slow windows now nip up and down. Just a thought!!

You are right the handbrake does not auto tighten. there is a blanking grommet in the bottom of the rear disk back plate that allows access to the adjuster. with the wheel off the ground tighten each one until the wheel binds with the handbrake two clicks up. the hand brake on GV's is poor at the best of times so don't expect too much. The cable in the cabin should not need tightening and definitely shouldn't be used to adjust the brakes.

Hi, welcome Not sure if there is a buyer guide, but mechanically the car is similar to a Fiat Bravo II and both seem fairly reliable.The engines are used across a wide range of FCA products from Alfas to Fiat 500s and seem fairly robust and economical. The car is made in Italy but do not expect a thrill a minute Integrale experience, this Delta is more refined and almost an Italian Rover or Audi. The main issue is that people, even car buff do not have a clue what it is although passengers in mine seem quite impressed once inside. Have a search on Instagram for how good they do look inside and out. That 'identity crisis' does make the car hard to price. There are only 900 or so on British roads so some are priced on how they look which can be high (see the £4k one on ebay, looks great) or quite cheaply as there is no real demand. At auction they will typically sell for around £1500. All cars are around 8 years old so expect some wear although mine at 123k miles is holding up rather well. Budget £300 or so for a cambelt at least. Living with it is not a straight forward as Golf, indicator click is stupidly quiet, you have to fold the rear seat down to remove the parcel shelf as the tailgate is smaller than the shelf, no obvious place to put glasses or phone. The feedback from the road is set more toward isolation that the involvement of an Alfa, not as crisp and direct, but more refined. The radio is a let down, trim can be plasticy in places too. On the plus side the driving position is good, engines have decent poke, the body shape still looks crisp and modern and owners of similar sized Mercs, Audis and BMWs do not have a clue what has zoomed past them. Get a remap and take on bigger cars, readily available as the engines are Alfa/Fiat. Parts cheap too for the mechanical stuff, just don't damage the body or interior. The one pictured is a base spec with an even more unloved semi auto gearbox with high is miles, at auction it would have been around £1k, OK for basic transport with a good discount but if the autobox goes wrong few will know how to fix, and probably due a belt change. Now is a good time to get a Delta, market depressed, little demand, confused identity, but reliable basics, distinctive looks, nice colour combinations, smart interior, no signs of rust and prices rock bottom. Seek the best specced one you can find and haggle. What is there not to like!

Got home from the rig and the nice people at Swansea have written to me. So right now I am the proud first ever owner of AP12 VXC! Weirdly the V5 says 'first used elsewhere in the UK', which - if you've been following this - we know is B-S & is what caused all the faffing about in the first place; Guernsey isn't in the UK or EU. Never mind, tomorrow will transfer the GAS plate over & that is finally that!

My Saturday was full on....

Hi . I’m the lucky person who now owns Mikeys Delta. Just got home from collecting it .Mikey has maintained and looked after D3LTX. I have a file 2 inches thick listing everything he’s done .Really nice drive and a credit to him.

flip sake, thought it was just me. Just wasted half a bottle of aftershave.

Hi all, I managed to fix the issue and hope that it will help some of you in the future to save some stress and money. The problem was bad ground wire G300 that lives under the carpet next to the B pillars on each side of the car. You must remove plastic covers and lift the carpet, undo the wire and give it a good clean. I found this video for similar problem, that might help you to picture it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSEAVnWP5X0 Hopefully this is it and I wont have this problem any more.

Hi Sorry for loooooooooong time to answer. If you wont to go lowered on active susp. Just replace springs nad thats all. Dont touch anything on cpu. Replace spring and njoy http://i68.tinypic.com/2quhh5k.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/2a5fapz.jpg http://i68.tinypic.com/15xpe6o.jpg

Just to confirm got my Delta services and MOT by my local indie. Sailed through MOT:) Sump plug and washer from mito from Alfa workshop was fine. Spark plugs were also right, car feels a lot better a lower revs. Glad I got it done, thanks for the advice chaps

Fixed at last! Got a new siren/control unit off eBay different part number but just the tone of the beep seems slightly different £80 as opposed to about £200 from Fiat, didn't want to risk £200 on something that may not have fixed it! The reason for failure of these units seems to be neither battery failure nor damp. The unit is sealed against damp but this has the side effect of holding in very small amounts of corrosive fumes from the charging of the batteries and this corrodes the circuit board. That's the theory I found on the net and seems plausible

May I add something here after readig it....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh F/n Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll....Sorry....

Thanks again everybody - such a knowledgeable forum!! The cars been running absolutely fine since the repair and my paranoia has also calmed down ha! So far so good x

Hopefully this will be of some use to someone if the same happens, which sadly I believe it a common thing . I've had the resistor in place for a week now, and its been working perfectly. About 300 miles covered faultlessly. It was playing on my mind about the whole thing being held together with electrical tape, so I decided to buy the ready made part from the chaps at www.custom300cshop.co.uk Its the second time Ive used them, and they are really helpful, with fast deliveries. The part I ordered was the swirl flap emulator http://www.custom300cshop.co.uk/chrysler300c_swirlportemulator.html Its basically a resistor fitted into a purpose made, and very high quality plastic casing, which fits perfectly into the swirl flap plug. This should take the worry out of the electrical tape melting or degrading over time. It was £40, which some may say is a lot for a bit of plastic, however the fact that they have had these specially made, they fit perfectly, and they are a damn sight cheaper than a new swirl flap motor, I think its good value for money. Pictures below if you fancy a look. Cheers Matt.

So garage have fitted 4 new injectors, and it so far so good. They have tested it and cannot replicate the cutting out. I have only driven it short distance, but it starts well (when previously it didn't) and it hasn't cut out, when previously it might have. If anything changes I will get back on here, but for anyone else who is experiencing poor starting and cutting out here is the order of events for me: Fuel FilterPressure relief valveFuel filter housing and wiring loomPressure sensor on fuel railInjector testingNew injectors My car has been renamed Triggers Broom!

https://www.parkers.co.uk/chrysler/delta/hatchback-2011/16-m-jet-sr-nav-5d/owner-reviews/20180112065355/?utm_campaign=parkers-owner-reviews&utm_source=publication-confirmation-email&utm_medium=email

This forum has proved indispensable for a Delta owner. I had the misfortune of a snapped passenger side spring coil, originals come in pairs with a hefty £300 price tag. I am going for an advice I got from the forum for a suspension lowering eipache kit been backed and shipped and hopefully by next week will be fitted OK. I will have surplus driver side and the 2 back ones old and bit rusty of course (11 reg) but can solve a problem and get a Delta back on the road. I can find some space in the garage or the attic to keep these in case a mate in the forum needs them, can ship for what it costs. Do you think we should set a spares thread....

In the past if you stuck something in a garage/barn for 40 years it would suddenly become rare and valuable, if it were actually worth something in the first place, it could then be worth quite a lot , and receive rose coloured praises from writers who actually never drove one in the first place. That said, I'm not sure how vehicles of today will fair in the future especially if say in another 40 years there's no such thing as petrol/diesel, or that if there is, it would be absolutely horrendous cost per litre. A while ago I bought a Ford Explorer and had it converted to LPG, it drove superbly was extremely reliable and did everything and more that a full size 4x4 could be expected to do. After 9 years and 80,000 the timing chain broke and ruined the engine (and people worry about timing belts). I could of rebuilt the engine, but at that age and mileage it really wasn't worth it, so it went to the great recycler in the sky, mainly because there were many 4x4 alternatives around, most giving as much performance and better economy that an old 'exploder'. However for me the point is that I'm unaware of any suitable replacement for my Stow n Go (as and when it gives up the ghost), hence I will keep mine going as long as is practicable. When it does die I'm not sure what its replacement will be, and I can't really think of any new or vintage which could even come close to it. What else can be used as a large comfortable car one minute, a van the next, and take a full load on a 600 mile trip at 80mph and still touch 30mpg ? 40 years ago you didn't worry much about car electrics as the bodywork was going to rust away long before that ever become a problem

Gentleman the Voyager has now departed and I would like to thank all of you that have offered advice and a few laughs over the past couple of years. You never know I might return in the future with another beastie but now I’m playing with a Quattro Avant.

Sorry for delay in update, busy with wife's illness. Car tech checked out car on Wednesday afternoon and just had to be the main ECU. He has sent it away to be repaired by a close mate whom he trusts. I will update when it is refitted.

Hi, everyone. I purchased my 55 plate 2.8 GV stow n go at the end of June 2019 breaking all the rules but I got it quite cheap. I had been reading this forum for some time because I really fancied one of the stow n go's, Right to the point. full service ,new cambelt kit including water pump and pulley's. Because of the high mileage 189k I decided to research various fuel additives and came across Archoil. I have found this treatment excellent and it does what it says on the tin. The dreaded hand brake problem is sorted and works well, not without much hassle. The car came with new top hats discs and shoes and pads. Whoever fitted these items used the old springs which was a big mistake. It appears thorough cleaning. appropriate greasing and new spring kit is a must. A full clean and greasing of the handbrake and clockspring was a nightmare but it was worth it. I found a mass of photos on line showing the different handbrake systems.The coolant system was flushed on 3 separate occasions and with the thermostat mod new pressure cap it appears to have improved. Passed mot Friday 29 May with no advisories and what had I done to keep the emissions so low on a high mileage engine. The car drive and behaves impeccably and I love the versatility. I don't understand the complaints about fuel consumption because after a lifetime of artic trucking experience if driven correctly its fine. This forum has been a great source of help and information thanks to all. Once again folks look after your car and it will look after you. Look after yourselves, Oldginger.

Hi guys & gals. First time owner of a Chrysler. Brought a 2007 Grand Voyager Executive CRD auto 84’000 miles 4 months ago. Learnt a lot from the forum before joining today. Already done the button mod. Thanks leedsman. Really enjoying ownership so far. Nice big barge to drive. When I brought the car it had a Exide EB741 battery on (unknown age but looked old), worked fine till it got cold. Decided to buy a RedTop. Mistake. Yes it had great cranking power, but drained heavily when not used for a couple of days. I borrowed a high tech amp meter which recorded over a long weekend of no use. Car was only drawing minimal ma consistently. Yet my battery tester had it down to 40% charge. When I charge the RedTop up to 100% and leave disconnected, it retains charge. Apparently the self discharge when connected is common on these red tops. Quality is not what they used to be. In the end gave up and brought a Advanced 096R XD battery for £80 delivered. This battery is perfect. No self discharge and plenty of power to spin the crd over on cold mornings. Volt meter reads 12.8v after leaving all weekend. Result. Sorry for the long first post, but wanted to share my experience. I like to do my own servicing and repairs, and pretty handy with electrics and fault finding on management systems. Hope I can contribute to the forum as much as it’s helped me already. Paul.

I'm still on the original battery too. My S/S has ceased working but thats OK with me and no other issues so................... I have disconnected before though for service work. No real issues although you may get some initial lights and errors and may need to move the steering wheel from lock to lock to remove any Steering errors. You might also need to reset the Auto-down windows function by fully depressing each then holding for 5 seconds.

I've done a bit of research on KYB springs and there are several spring types. Firstly, nothing mentioned for Lancia Delta of our vintage, so over to the Bravo section, and there are two types of rear spring (sport and regular) and five fronts (sport regular plus varying engine weights to support) 1.4 base Front RH3906 Rear RH6389 1.4 T-Jet RH3907 RH6389 1.4 T-Jet Sport RH3910 RH6437 1.6 Diesel RH3908 RH6389 2.0 Diesel RH3909 RH6437 Dampers are more straightforward and are in the Lancia section Rears all models 343826 Fronts 2.0 (1.9 twin turbo and 1750TB) 339786 all 1.4 petrols and 1.6 diesels 339785 Spring prices on ebay start at £15 for the rears and £25 for the fronts HTH

If you have safe parking you could pull the "shelf" fuse, that would keep you alarmed but reduce other drain. Alternatively I have a 'red key', I never use it because it does TOTAlly isolate your battery.

I have had a bit (well, alot) of difficulty find the correct dampers for my 2.0, these guys on Italian ebay were excellent https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/dcrricambiauto based in Catania in Sicily, but the parts were here in 72 hours, only one day longer than being supplied the wrong ones in the UK, and there were cheaper. Currently two rear dampers are half the price one on UK damper on ebay so they are very good on price too. Communication was excellent (through google translate!) Grazie mille!

Just change Chrysler Delta coil springs. Fitted with no problems. KYB RH6389 rear KYB RH3908 front. Fits 100%

Well 2 bits of good news today, MoT passed with no advisories and Fiat have said they've sent the EU conformity certificate today free of charge. The website says they're £120 but I'll not argue the toss! I've got all the DVLA stuff I need to fill in & send. The HMRC cars team in Belfast should have had the C&E109 today so I imagine the next step will be the tax bill. I've done more in 4 days than the numpty sellers did in 3 months! I work offshore for 3 weeks at a time & I'm due away tomorrow, so I guess nothing will happen for a bit. Also there's something about this site the wi-fi on the platform doesn't like, so unfortunately I can't access it which is a real PITA.

Enjoy the car, it looks an absolute belter. I'm not keen on white cars, but the Delta just seems to suit it, especially with the black roof.

Problem solved! I went out today to take a look at that 3rd relay, and unfortunately those 3 relays are all for the fans.To my surprise though, while I was fiddling in that area, I found another relay hanging loose that I assume had come off the crossmember and was tucked away where I couldn't see it underneath the battery area. Nowhere, in any of the manuals & documentation I've found, is this relay mentioned at all and if I hadn't been pulling on the loom for more slack I would never have known it was there. I checked the colour coding of the wires, and it matched the wiring I expected for the TC Relay. This relay is the same type as the other 3 for the fans, so I swapped one of those over with the TC Relay, giving all the contacts a good clean in the process. I cleared all the codes with a borrowed ODBII tool, and I'm back to all 4 gears again. I've done around 20 miles and made sure all 4 gears are kicking in so I'm happy that my problem's solved. Thought I'd post this up here in case it helps any others with the same problem.

Hi I i'll found some led head light bulbs that work in the voyager at a reasonable cost they are Q1 H7 and H9 cost £12 and cheaper and will not blind other road users and mot friendly have fitted two sets so far with good results you can buy on ebay now.Jeff

Yay good lad! Looks great doesn't it, putting it back to the way it should be!

Yes I just got one from eBay works a dream doing mine tomorrow will get oil over me if there is oil it loves me .

It can't as it'll be part of the car unless he cuts it out. You wouldn't do that as you'd be stuffed for fitting anything else. Whereas the scrappies should cut the loom out, then that way you could make a patch cable to plug into your existing loom, if that makes sense?

Yeah, the early mark2 Ducato (94 on) had the wiper ducting drain straight on top of the battery, which overflowed and coated the chassis leg in battery acid!!! The modification was to move the drain as far as possible from the battery . . ie, over the gearbox vent, which washed the grease off the external linkage and seized it!!! Some days you are the pigeon, some days you're the statue

codes here

The dreaded seat! I really wish it was sliding like the other versions

How do we know that he doesn't ???? ;-) Like the Punto and power steering system failure.. usually follows a clutch change . . The engine earth is more of a culprit than the actual power steering Just cos he died after his breakfast, doesn't mean that it was the breakfast that killed him !!!

I finally got the car running. But it's a tricky one, as I had to bypass the small starter relay. Looks like a loose, damaged wiring or worn the ignition barrel. Will try to find out over the weekend. Thanks for your help. http://content7-foto.inbox.lv/albums/a/aabbxx/Voyager-N1DXE/IMG-20180108-202615.sized.jpg?1515448887

DRL ordered today, €220 delivered :-D

Good work on the Airbag Alcantara. Check my Lancia Martini stripes for the sills earlier in the thread (I think!) as an alternative. Great bonus with the windscreen! I don't think FCA had a choice in putting in the Chrysler badging. UK Type approval means the 'makers' branding is displayed on the glass etc. I've used http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADESIVI-specchietti-per-Lancia-DELTA-New-Pvc-Frost-Smerigliato-Stickers-Auto-/201437768159?hash=item2ee6a069df:g:GVQAAOSwHjNV-etk those to try to hide mine! The earlier - what they call 'Waterfall' grill which I have is Part No.735478276 http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u241/yardelli/Delta1_zpsanbfbnlg.jpg

Hi, did you get this problem sorted at all? If you didnt, then its an easy fix. Open the bonnet and, and find the washer bottle. Next to that, bolted to the drivers side wing, you will find a black box. Unplug the box, and hey presto, the fault will vanish. It will also cure a few other faults, such as indicators that miss a click, rear wipers wiping on their own, reversing sensors firing up when your driving forward. The box is the HID translator module. All it does is let the ECU know when a headlight bulbs blows. If you can live without that function then you can cure all the rest!! The HID module develops a fault, and effects lots of other things down the line.

We'd both be interested in attending in our Delta's. One is a Momo 'S' which has just been Lancia branded (on the outside only at the moment) and an SR with the black Momo grill.

If there's any events that any of you guys are going to then I'm more than up for it too

I would put money on it being a faulty stereo amplifier, which is located in the right hand rear quarter panel. VArious other circuits run through this too, like the alarm system. I had this intermittent problem for about two years, until it was properly diagnosed by a good auto electrician, replaced, and never a flicker of a problem since.

got it done - very fiddly job. Not sure if I did it right but it worked and everyone went back together fine. if anyone else interested; 1. remove triangle plastic cover from inside rear of window by prising it towards front of car. 2. remove the two torx screws holding the cover that fits over the inside door handle. 3. once this is prised off there is another torx screw to remove which fixes the plastic decorative door panel to the door. 4. the door panel should then prise away from a whole series of press studs that hold it in place. 5. there were two electric connectors to separate just inside the handle mounting to remove the panel completely. 6. there is then another smaller metal panel to remove. i firstly removed all the hex head bolts from around the edges using a 10 mm socket. I think there were around 12 of these. 7. at this point the door panel came away enough but I couldn't see how to get it to come completely off. there is some kind of connecting bracket to towards the rear of the panel that I could see but not access. There is another hex head bolt that goes through the door further back and I wondered if this was the final fix but wasn't confident to remove this one in case it was for something else. 8. anyway it didn't matter as with the window up and the door panel loose enough to pull slightly away and down, it is possible with a long socket extension to access the 8mm hex head bolts that hold the handle in place from the inside. 9. this part was fiddly. there are two bolts toward the front and one towards the back. there was also some tape to remove over one of the access holes. 10. There is also the pull cable to remove. this unsnaps from a slot and then the ball end of the cable can be twisted to come out of its retainer. its hard to see but you can see how it attaches by looking at new handle. i also got my son to shine a light behind the door panel but its a bit awkward to have someone else there as there is not a lot of room. if you trace this cable it will help to undo other end to give some slack to play with. at other end, there is a little black to unclip to get to cable ends and the end just prises out. 11. new handle fits by sliding back portion into door first and then rotating front. 12. fit the ball end of pull cable first and then pull cable back to snap it into position. 13. refit everything in reverse and should be fine. hope that helps someone else who might be looking to do this.

Hurrah!