andyb2000

Hi Richard,
 
Welcome! Others will probably stop by and help, hopefully my memory of these beasts will help, sadly I no longer have my own.
 
So this is one that has cropped up from time to time quite often. It's also a problem I had on my old CGV (The second one I owned). Same thing, it's a warm start problem and it's very repeatable as you describe.
 
My suspicion though is it was mechanical. When hot there is expansion in most components, and in my thinking it's down to poor compression why it won't start. It just turns over and over, it occasionally tries to catch but then dies (If you listen carefully to the engine you can hear it almost catch then immediately fail and back to starter motor just spinning the engine).
 
If I still had mine I'd be starting to look at the cylinder head gasket or even cylinder rings getting worn and loosing compression when hot. Once engine is running it sort of self-heals as it's not as noticeable but when starting that's when you need it most.
 
BUT after all that, sensors also deteriorate when hot so your thinking of swapping sensors is logical. My first thoughts would be the PRV on end of the diesel rail, the crank and speed sensors too, one by one is sensible here. All of those can affect the startup and are also sensors very prone to temperature related failures.
 
On the radio/CD you should be fine fitting. You'll need the code from the old one though. The codes are normally stored in the ECU and 'pair' when they connect up, fitting a different unit I suspect will trigger the need to enter the code, which if you don't have the original manual/code doc for the donor car might not work, but I'd say give it a go.
 
I recall that relay you mention but cannot for the life of me remember it's function. I'll see if I can find out!
 
Cheers,
Andy

Hi Richard,
 
Welcome! Others will probably stop by and help, hopefully my memory of these beasts will help, sadly I no longer have my own.
 
So this is one that has cropped up from time to time quite often. It's also a problem I had on my old CGV (The second one I owned). Same thing, it's a warm start problem and it's very repeatable as you describe.
 
My suspicion though is it was mechanical. When hot there is expansion in most components, and in my thinking it's down to poor compression why it won't start. It just turns over and over, it occasionally tries to catch but then dies (If you listen carefully to the engine you can hear it almost catch then immediately fail and back to starter motor just spinning the engine).
 
If I still had mine I'd be starting to look at the cylinder head gasket or even cylinder rings getting worn and loosing compression when hot. Once engine is running it sort of self-heals as it's not as noticeable but when starting that's when you need it most.
 
BUT after all that, sensors also deteriorate when hot so your thinking of swapping sensors is logical. My first thoughts would be the PRV on end of the diesel rail, the crank and speed sensors too, one by one is sensible here. All of those can affect the startup and are also sensors very prone to temperature related failures.
 
On the radio/CD you should be fine fitting. You'll need the code from the old one though. The codes are normally stored in the ECU and 'pair' when they connect up, fitting a different unit I suspect will trigger the need to enter the code, which if you don't have the original manual/code doc for the donor car might not work, but I'd say give it a go.
 
I recall that relay you mention but cannot for the life of me remember it's function. I'll see if I can find out!
 
Cheers,
Andy

@@Sentech There are actually two locations for the 2.8CRD (and 2.5CRD) fuel filter on 4th gen. On every 2004/2005 model I've owned they are underneath to the rear by the fuel tank. None in the engine bay, but I've worked on ones with the filter (with the small rubber manual primer on the top) in the engine bay as you describe also.
 
There seemed to be several variations on the design and so you need to physically check as I've yet to find a way of finding which edition matches which location for fuel filter and lift pump!

@@Sentech There are actually two locations for the 2.8CRD (and 2.5CRD) fuel filter on 4th gen. On every 2004/2005 model I've owned they are underneath to the rear by the fuel tank. None in the engine bay, but I've worked on ones with the filter (with the small rubber manual primer on the top) in the engine bay as you describe also.
 
There seemed to be several variations on the design and so you need to physically check as I've yet to find a way of finding which edition matches which location for fuel filter and lift pump!

Hiya Daz,
 
So this is a really common problem, I've posted countless times about it and the IOD fuse pull. My first CGV did this repeatedly, but my second did not. The thing that was different was my first had it's locks removed from the sliding doors as it was used as a taxi in it's early life so I'd guess they re-wired the locks.
 
The fuse blowing I suspected was due to the locking solenoid drawing too much current which would be caused by the mechanism starting to cease up or the solenoid going bad. Unfortunately that means it's going to be a discovery process to eliminate.
To me only option is to take the door card out of each door in turn (sliding doors to start with I'd say as I'd expect most likely to be the issue) and disconnect the locking solenoid. Then close the doors and cycle the locks a few times to get it to pop the fuse or see if the system stops working and needs the IOD reset.
When it stops doing that, I'd say you've located the faulty solenoid that either you can grease up and free the mechanism or look to replace the locking solenoid.
 
Hope that helps,
Andy

Hiya Daz,
Yes this is quite a common one, only a problem with the diesel editions it seems and it's down to the fuel heater that can overheat, melt the plastic and cause air to seep in causing it to cut out.
My videos are all at: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndyBrown2000/videos
The video I think you refer to is this general one about what to look for:
 
https://youtu.be/ucfZfV1cNng
 
And the fuel filter replacement video - which is for fuel filters at the tank:
https://youtu.be/GF3lTJhEomo
 
Hope these help, the problem could be one of a few things so you'd need to work through them logically.
 
Regards,
Andy

OK guys, anyone following my Voyager problems will know my affection for the Maxi. Today I purchased one in reasonable condition. !976 with full history  and historic status. I also purchased 3 weeks ago a 1991 Rover 214 sohc 8v carburettor model. They both have the same things in common. Muscle toning steering, windows etc, no central locking or immobiliser and above all else NO  NAFF COMPUTER. Still waiting for some competent auto tech to fix my Voyager, in the mean time I am enjoying real motoring, and with all the things that's happened to me this year this touch of happy days is very welcome. Stay safe, regards Roy.
 
 

If it's a diesel check the temp gauge gets up to the half way mark, if not then it's not getting up to full temp, costing you fuel, and you need the inline thermostat mod, and at this time of year the grille blanking mod, both readily found in posts on here

I done the thermostat mod a few weeks back,what a difference.roasty toasty after a few minutes. Can't believe nobody done this in the 16 years before I took the car on.

Hi there,
Welcome!
So, first off unfortunately I think I'm going to 'call' on the garage and say they didn't check properly. The thermostat is down the back of the engine about half-way down the block and VERY difficult to get to on 2005/2006 era, so them checking it and seeing it was new I'm a little dubious of.
Anyway, did they run a coolant system pressure check, check the water pump output pressure or just check for no leaks?
 
To me it sounds like a blockage, and typically that's the radiator on these as over the years they get blocked/partially blocked and don't do their job, slow down coolant flow, etc.
 
Like you say, the filler cap being cool is suspicious, so where/how did it dump it's coolant? If it didn't foam out of the fillter cap it's gone somewhere, which makes me worry did it dump it in the cylinders (i.e. it's overheated too far and the head gasket has gone).
 
First (easy) job for you at home is full coolant flush, get it flushed through the hoses and see how you get on.
Then I think I'd go for a compression test to see if the head gasket is the problem.
Thermostat could be stuck closed or almost closed but that's fairly unlikely, they tend to fail fully open.
 
Good luck and let us know what you check, and ask the garage you took it to, what exactly did they do to verify the pump was working, etc. Did they pressure test the coolant system?

For your starting problem change the Fuel Pressure Relief Valve. Available on flee-bay so can get quick answer or added to tried that list. Mind you there is a sensor on the rail aswell and 4 injectors that might be passing fuel.

@@biscuit remember ABS is a self-resetting warning light, as QinteQ says, when it's good it'll clear the light (after a few minutes of driving normally) and when it's bad it'll light up again. If it's intermittent then you could start looking at the ABS sensors but without diagnostics you'd be shooting in the dark as to which sensor is causing it.
 
@@QinteQ @@bignev all good here fella, thanks for asking hope you're all good. I'm working my way round catching up again, my project Volvo 480 is the main job I have going these days (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkG_31Apro1lklGwqRQ0L3Cn5jz067K6R if you want to see an idiot trying to get a car working again!)

Hopefully as advised its the bushes  , and if so very easy to do.
 
One of mine failed at last MoT, so bought 2 bushes from  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-REAR-SHOCK-ABSORBER-BUSH-CHRYSLER-GRAND-VOYAGER-2001-2007-SELF-LEVELLING-ONLY/332167075184?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 
Shock came off very easy considering how long it had been on there for, removed the old bushes with a mixture of bignevs hacksaw technique and a small chisel, and had the local MoT garage press in the new ones, and bolted it all together.

@@Dazzer Yeah that was my video changing them, depends how up for a challenge you are, as @@bignev says you can change the bushes, I've never attempted it as not justified the press (YET!).
 
Thanks fellas btw, all good here for me, my Zafira doing the job but still not the replacement of my GV, I keep seeing the ads on FB for ones coming up and I'm tempted, but my wife would kill me if I got another project car (I've got a Volvo 480 barn find project on my drive at the minute, so learning welding)
@@QinteQ how are you, hope you and the family are good, yes I'm popping up occasionally on the Facebook pages but not the forums often.

I had a zafira before my gv now I have the bug I don't think I will have anything else

I'm ok Andy, Jimmy and all of the clan are fine, see you on the other side buddy.

Spot on Argee, glad you got sorted. Don't suppose you took a photo of the thermostat before you fitted (and the tweaks you did to it to fit), or still had the link? Would be good to add to the video comments so there are more details/alternatives for others.

The paint code should start with a P so for mine it's PXR (Which is the Brilliant Black Crystal) which is also know as AXR.
 
Mine is attached, if you look at the highlighted part that shows my code of "PXR" and you can also check it on this site http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?code=PXR&manuf=Chrysler&rows=50
 
Hope that helps you check and find the right one!
 

Just to add another price/job done, I got this done when I got my 2005 2.8CRD earlier this year and actually got it done at a Halfords Autocentre (before you groan, Halfords Autocentres are separately run to their bulb fitting empire!) as it's just beside work.
It's a pig of a job, so took them the majority of the day, but for belt and water pump it came to around £500 including parts.

OK, there are none that have in-tank pumps/primers, so if yours doesn't have that assembly beside the tank then yes the only primer is the hand primer bulb in the engine bay, so it relies on the system staying pressurised and using the high pressure pump to do the work.
 
When you have trouble with it starting, go and pump the primer, is it hard or soft? If soft then it is fuel leaking back to the tank so you have a small leak/air leak between there and the tank. The housing with the primer is a common issue as the plastic cracks/becomes brittle and will allow a slight leak.
 
To verify, before you start first thing on a morning, go in bonnet and pump primer a good few times to get the primer bulb nice and hard, then try a start. If it starts then you've confirmed the issue.
If the primer is hard and pumping does nothing to help it starting, then that's not your issue, issue then must be anywhere north of the high pressure pump (Solenoid, hp rail, injectors, pressure relief valve). All of these are common and some easier to test than others (Pressure relief valve and injector leak off test relatively easy so do those first). plenty posts about it and I've done a whole video covering many of these issues.
 
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Hi there,
 
It's probably my video you've found:
https://youtu.be/MpfQLsWLiic
 
It's based on a mod not by myself but others on the .com forum, many people have done it in the past and on this forum so if you search you'll find many people that have done it. Worked great and haven't seen any negative issues raised by anyone so far on it.
 
Hope it does the trick, getting to the original thermostat has been done (several people) but I've never managed it myself, access was just too difficult as tried several times from top and bottom and couldn't get to the bolts to sufficiently undo.

Hi mate @@bignev not a problem, we're all learning as we go so no worries!
Yes, the wiper scuttle and full assembly comes out and I'd done that so many times for various fixes, changing the coil springs, dampners, etc, to get access to the top bolt.
So yes, when we attempted the thermostat (twice!) we had that out, I was lying on top of the engine reaching down, from memory (I didn't take pics unfortunately) that I could just reach the thermostat (I thought it was 3/4 way down the engine, but see pics below) but it's that close to the bulkhead into the cabin that getting a regular spanner/socket on there was next to impossible so couldn't get the purchase on the bolts to free them.
 
Since it's been a while (And I sadly don't have my GV any more) I've looked up a couple of pics, so the thermostat looks like:
 

 
So the 3 or 4 bolts sit beneath the main pipework. And the engine:
 

 
So you see it top right, not as low as I thought, but getting access to it is the problem as the exhaust manifold is directly below it blocking access from underneath, and from the top your spanner can't get in!
 
Well at least mine didn't! But I know it's possible as there are others that have confirmed they've managed.
Ah well, not an issue for me anymore as unfortunately mine is long gone (And I'm stuck with a Zafira now)
Cheers,
Andy

You can't screw up because you can always reverse it can't you ?
 
The "Winterising" of cars has been around for as long as there have been cars. GV's however IMO have additional needs of (1) particularly high IOD (2) a big cold lump of an engine in the -0°C UK, a (3) spectacularly poor CCA battery [+ battery tray] and even with a supplimentary Webasto Watertop diesel heater takes (4) too many minutes to heat the high volume cabin.
 
So while Winterising means tyres, blanket, de-icer etc. To me it means :
 
- higher charge rate
- lower cold air ingress
- better aH / CCA battery
- inline stat if needed
 
Charge rate is 10p and 10 minutes. Screwfix cheepo 99p a length microbore solves cold air ingress. Battery is eventually an inexorable essential not cosmetic. Inline stat is £15 and 15 minutes if needed.

Hi there,
 
It's probably my video you've found:
https://youtu.be/MpfQLsWLiic
 
It's based on a mod not by myself but others on the .com forum, many people have done it in the past and on this forum so if you search you'll find many people that have done it. Worked great and haven't seen any negative issues raised by anyone so far on it.
 
Hope it does the trick, getting to the original thermostat has been done (several people) but I've never managed it myself, access was just too difficult as tried several times from top and bottom and couldn't get to the bolts to sufficiently undo.

600 mm in his write up