andyb2000

Thanks again everybody - such a knowledgeable forum!! The cars been running absolutely fine since the repair and my paranoia has also calmed down ha! So far so good x

This does sound exactly what I had when mine was at it's worst. At first it just cut out under heavy RPM/load, but when it really failed it did that, cut out basically idling on the driveway.
Also the 'chugging' trying to start was something I've had too, actually mine will still do this when the engine is warm, still haven't gotten to the bottom of that issue but i'm not getting cut outs anymore after working through everything shown.
 
Go through everything in the video, methodically and work through items that you know are 'known good', as pressure relief valve and filter are easily done at home on the driveway so test the easy things before going to the harder/more expensive replacements.
 
Unfortunately NO garage will be able to tell you 100% that one thing will fix it, if they do they're lying as none of these issues generate fault codes in the ECU enough to be sure on the corrective action.

Hi there,

Unfortunately this can be a long list of problems, there are lots of posts on here and on other forums and I did a whole video dedicated to it:

https://youtu.be/ucfZfV1cNng

When you say it won't run for hours what does it do, dashboard light up, you hear the starter motor turning the engine over it just never fires? When it does that if you waggle your foot on the accelerator will it catch and start?

Also, the assumption is the cut out is when you do hard acceleration/over 3.5k rpm? That's the common failure. So back to the list:
Fuel filter - when was it last changed Fuel - what fuel do you buy Fuel - put a diesel cleaner/additive through it sometimes helps If the filter has been changed recently, get the filter assembly checked to make sure its sealed properly, has an o-ring. Worth getting it changed again Is it a front or rear fuel filter model? The 05 has different designs, if front check the primer pump and pump it to get it started, if it goes soft it means potentially air/leaking (Those are just a few that popped into my head as I type, there are lots of posts on the matter!
Engine warning light is a newer one that hasn't been seen in many cases, the fact that the garages plugged in and got no codes means they're not using the right code readers, these need very expensive/special readers
to read the Chrysler codes, so the fact the engine light is on but they see no codes means their reader isn't good enough for the job!

Coolant temperature sensor location
 

 
From memory this is a 2-pin sensor (You'll soon notice when you take the connector off), if that's the case then it'll be a resistance type varying the resistance depending on temperature so you could do a simple test of check it when engine stone cold, then check it again after a drive around to get up to temperature, see what varyance is, but I'd not know the thresholds without doing more digging I'm afraid.
 

OK, so we know relays are eliminated.
That sounds about right for them spinning, so at least they're free moving. I suppose next part is coolant temperature sensor which you rightly queried, though I'm not 100% on location, will take a look when I'm home at the wiring diagram, however what does the dial in the car show, if that reads normal I'd not expect the temperature sensor to be at fault.
 
I guess next steps depending on how adventurous you are! Personally (being more inclined to electrical!) I'd be getting a couple of wires from a battery, disconnect one radiator fan connector and feed 12v straight into the fan terminal, get it to spin and see if it keeps spinning. That way you know for sure if it is the fan itself or not.
(Usual caveats apply, don't cross the wires, etc, as car battery can pack quite a punch/spark!)
The other alternative to that is to use a multimeter and read what voltage is being supplied to the fans, if its constant 12v then you know it's the fan itself, if it's 12v then down to 0 then its the ECU cutting power to the fans for some reason.
 
Unfortunately it's a step-by-step process this one. I'm hoping it's not the ECU cutting the power as that could be all sorts of reasons.

Hm, all of the info above to me seems more related to coolant temperature, but the radiator fans not running continuously I think may be something different.
 
When you have the engine running and switch the air con on the fans should come on and run continuously whilst the a/c is active, so if you force that (switch to manual, set low temperature and hit the a/c snowflake symbol) if the fans go on then switch straight back off my suspicion is that they're not spinning freely so the ECU is detecting this and cutting them so they don't burn out/damage, etc.
 
So, with battery disconnected (to make sure fans don't start whilst playing!) see if you can spin each fan, they should spin freely and shouldn't stop the moment you stop spinning. If either one does then disconnect that fan, reconnect the battery and try the test again with the engine and a/c, see if it still cuts out.
 
To me, this is the ECU cutting power to the fans for some reason, so i'd go electrical at first, check both relays (The two left-most relays on the front of the engine bay on the crossbeam) and if needed swap them for known good relays to test.

No i didnt but i just took a look and i wish i had seen it before lol its a great post in lots of detail.good job m8

Hi there,

Unfortunately this can be a long list of problems, there are lots of posts on here and on other forums and I did a whole video dedicated to it:

https://youtu.be/ucfZfV1cNng

When you say it won't run for hours what does it do, dashboard light up, you hear the starter motor turning the engine over it just never fires? When it does that if you waggle your foot on the accelerator will it catch and start?

Also, the assumption is the cut out is when you do hard acceleration/over 3.5k rpm? That's the common failure. So back to the list:
Fuel filter - when was it last changed Fuel - what fuel do you buy Fuel - put a diesel cleaner/additive through it sometimes helps If the filter has been changed recently, get the filter assembly checked to make sure its sealed properly, has an o-ring. Worth getting it changed again Is it a front or rear fuel filter model? The 05 has different designs, if front check the primer pump and pump it to get it started, if it goes soft it means potentially air/leaking (Those are just a few that popped into my head as I type, there are lots of posts on the matter!
Engine warning light is a newer one that hasn't been seen in many cases, the fact that the garages plugged in and got no codes means they're not using the right code readers, these need very expensive/special readers
to read the Chrysler codes, so the fact the engine light is on but they see no codes means their reader isn't good enough for the job!

sorry it took so long to get back to you guys my laptop went down after 4 days of no car turned out it was a bad earth your help was much appreciated so once again a big thank you guys

And of course do absolutely make sure that you check the atf fluid level in the gearbox. If it smells burnt, and isn't pinky red it's got a problem.
 
Because in limp mode (2nd gear I believe, my old 3.3 is in it) at 3000rpm you'd still be doing a reasonable speed!!

Thank you - I was hoping that someone would say that ! The car runs lovely otherwise and very smooth, no unusual sounds that point that way. The flex plate is well down the list now.. I'm sure it must be a sensor or ignition issue somewhere but so will keep looking

Hi there,
 
I'm not 100% sure on what else to look for, but I'd look away from the flexplate for now, when that is nearing end of it's life you get rattling/rasping noise mainly at idle or not at load. I had an almost failed flexplate and wrote quite a bit up about it if you need more info, but I can't see how that would cause you a P0344 or hesitation as it's a solid metal wheel, it'll either work or totally give way and won't transfer any movement from the engine to gearbox.

The F18 is 55mm longer, you will need to MOD the battery tray and maybe one long-side battery hold down lip. Redtops will fit and do work. The EP 450 can't be jiggered - get it de-sloughed on a 9 stage charger.
 
- lifestyle - frequent use - winter starts - duration [50 miles every other day] of recharge from the alternator - no intervention needed- lifestyle - infrequent use - semi-permanent advanced microprocessor controlled battery charger, the excellent MP7428 9 stage @ about £30 is an alternative to the double the price CTEK 5.0- the buttonMOD works well, is safe and will give a lot more aH in a short charge time window- 4 years ago  Best of luck.

Agreed, that sounds more likely in your case @@frogland
Swap to a different thread to keep the posts clean, I've looked over your previous posts and agree it appears to be related to your MAP/TC sensor.

I'd also be a little concerned that you're having to do that on the incline.
 
Normally the box should shift down and cope with it, L and 3 are generally used when you're towing or wanting to force engine braking, the box should automatically shift down fully to handle any hills.

Hi Andy
Great vid.
You have obviously gone to a lot of trouble with this.
I hope evryone views it and responds kindly.

Glad this got you going again, was similar to mine, but I went through a lot of different steps and potentially different solutions.
I've lumped it all together into a huge video covering all the bits I went through, so might be of use:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/chrysler-grand-2-17356742

codes here

Good enough Andy lad !

Great, glad to hear it @@Expoman
That adds up to my thinking that this has a large list of problems that cause the same/similar symptoms hence being so tricky to pin down. I'm still getting bad starts so think there is more to be done so I'll get on with that in warmer weather.
 
Did a lot of driving today, snow and -2 temperatures and no problems though.
 
The non-return-valve idea was talked about, QinteQ mentioned it to me a few weeks back when we were having a catch up in his lads garage and sounds a sensible idea if you think that's the issue, though it's more of a sticking-plaster solution than finding the root cause.
 
 
Also, anyone in the UK know where to source the fuel filter (rear edition beside tank) assembly so I can order one as thinking it's worth doing at some point.

Great, glad to hear it @@Expoman
That adds up to my thinking that this has a large list of problems that cause the same/similar symptoms hence being so tricky to pin down. I'm still getting bad starts so think there is more to be done so I'll get on with that in warmer weather.
 
Did a lot of driving today, snow and -2 temperatures and no problems though.
 
The non-return-valve idea was talked about, QinteQ mentioned it to me a few weeks back when we were having a catch up in his lads garage and sounds a sensible idea if you think that's the issue, though it's more of a sticking-plaster solution than finding the root cause.
 
 
Also, anyone in the UK know where to source the fuel filter (rear edition beside tank) assembly so I can order one as thinking it's worth doing at some point.

Just wanted to post another follow-up, I'm still free of engine cutting out, but it still doesn't feel like it's running smoothly. So my summary of what's gone on:
 
Filter change, ensuring housing is tight and seal correct - essential Running injector/diesel cleaner through the tank a few times - seems to improve things Fuel heater - unsure if this makes any difference at all! Replacing the MAP/TC sensor - this seems to have solved the issue for me So for now, a cold start seems OK (Bit of a chug but starts generally first time with a cloud of smoke (unburnt diesel))
A warm start seems troublesome, it'll turn over and over without seeming to 'catch' or fire, but waggling the accelerator whilst turning it over and sometimes clicking the ignition on and off a couple of times will make it start.
I'm not 100% on the cause of that warm start problem at the moment, it also feels like it's running a little rough between the 2.5 and 3k revs area but not significantly. Idling is fine no stutters, power and acceleration are there (I can foot to floor and belt it up a hill without hesitation).

Hi,
Sorry was away a few days (almost 1,000 miles added to the GV and no issues with cutting out I'm pleased to say).
 
Yes, I found the same thing, the heater was disconnected, when tested/reconnected it was a dead short, looks like it's in the wiring loom somewhere up behind the glovebox as it passes between outer and inner bodywork, I've not yet traced it as I simply cut it back under the carpet and wired it up elsewhere, happy to give details if you need it.
 
In terms of my cutting out, no I don't think it was ultimately the issue, though may have been one of many combined together causing me issues. Unless you have problems I'd not worry about it as also cannot see it making a huge difference.

My bad, the license on one of the components ran out (but didn't alert me!) 

Thanks all.
And so it continues! So I've been tracking down the short to ground on the fuel heater wiring, I *think* it's where the wiring loom comes in from the passenger side wheel through into the cockpit behind the glovebox, but I didn't dismantle the dash far enough.
So, what I've done is located the wiring loom down the centre of the vehicle, identified the wiring colours from the IPM/fusebox and cut the wires towards the rear before it went back out to the pump assembly connector.
 
I've included photos so everyone else has reference if they ever need to trace cables/wiring looms!
 
Back of the IPM (remove battery, then the IPM flips up easily from a plastic clip) and the connector in question is the ORANGE almost dead centre here. Traced that to the relay switched positive side. (So from battery positive it goes to one side of the 20a fuse, other side of fuse goes to relay (omron 21911c) pin 87. Output of switched relay pin 30 goes to dark blue wire with orange stripe pin 2 on the orange connector at back of IPM.
 

 
So then follow that wiring loom, it goes into the wheel arch on passenger side, up and over and into the cockpit. I didn't identify that location, but that's my guess where the damage to the loom exists. That's my next job as my thinking is if that wire has shorted, another or others are next on the hit list!
 
Inside the car the loom then splits and either goes along the passenger door, passenger seat belt pillar, to rear door. Other part of the loom crosses somewhere under the passenger seat, into the middle duct of the car. So to access that, take the mount for the centre middle-row console out.
 

You can see the black plastic cover for the duct. Unfortunately the break/split point is somewhere along the middle between the middle and rear seats, so as you can see I decided to cut the carpet to gain access.
 

 
And you can then lift up the plastic and gain access
 

 
You can see the rubber grommit where the cables that run down to the lift pump go, so that wiring plug carries: fuel heater, fuel lift pump, and water-in-diesel sensor. 6-way.
 
The connector underneath that plugs into the lift pump assembly is a 6-way, pin 1 (top left) is the heater pin (dark blue wire with orange stripe) and bottom right (pin6) is ground.
The fuel heater is approx 3ohms on mine, which @12v and 20amp potentially equates to a 240watt heater! Wow, so this runs almost constantly, so another big battery drain to be aware of! It's on at the moment ignition is in first position, so something to be aware of if you sit listening to the radio a lot on the 2.8CRD with this setup!!
 
Anyway, after all this, I've wired it in direct and tried again and I'm still getting rough idling, cutting out at idle and hesitation, so it hasn't solved my problem (Also replaced fuel filter for good measure again).
 
So I'm onto more thinking :-(
 
I've got the specs for two sensors I'm going to test next, one is the intake air temperature sensor (Which is incorporated into the TC boost sensor, 4-wire jobby). The next is the MAF, again check readings, etc.
 
After that, must be injectors?