Immobiliser

[Demodocus]

Can anyone help with starter problems on my 2004 Chrysler Voyager, Auto, Petrol 3.3cc. The car will not start although the engine cranks. Called out the RAC who think it's the immobiliser although they did not find any fault codes. Tried to reset the ignition key using the instructions from the workshop manual to no avail.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated 

[QinteQ]

My mate lives just north north of London on the Cambridge corridor, I live in the Boro, you are welcome to (2) a free read and code clears where they exist. Most code readers won't read Chrysler you need at least a good scanner. There's no such thing as a good scanner costing less than a £housand or £500 on a 'grey'. Long shot is - reset the computers by pulling the POS terminal for 16 minutes. Best of luck. [Caveat Emptor on any 2004 radio code issue]

[darkchild101]

My mate lives just north north of London on the Cambridge corridor, I live in the Boro, you are welcome to (2) a free read and code clears where they exist. Most code readers won't read Chrysler you need at least a good scanner. There's no such thing as a good scanner costing less than a £housand or £500 on a 'grey'. Long shot is - reset the computers by pulling the POS terminal for 16 minutes. Best of luck. [Caveat Emptor on any 2004 radio code issue]

QinteQ where exactly are you mate? I am planning a night out in Newcastle in next 2- 3 months and might take you up on your offer sir

[QinteQ]

Oh no not the Voodoo car from hell. If I had 20 scanners and 20 time served master mechanics each with 50 years experience available for a month we would never get info from that car. I'd stand more chance with a Whiccan doll, a bucket of sharp pins, some eye of newt, a devils mark and two spare agents of the devil and some Voodoo stones. Yes I'll meet you somewhere on the 19 or the [GNR] 1. The Quayside is about 50 miles north of me mate. 

[darkchild101]

Oh no not the Voodoo car from hell. If I had 20 scanners and 20 time served master mechanics each with 50 years experience available for a month we would never get info from that car. I'd stand more chance with a Whiccan doll, a bucket of sharp pins, some eye of newt, a devils mark and two spare agents of the devil and some Voodoo stones. Yes I'll meet you somewhere on the 19 or the [GNR] 1. The Quayside is about 50 miles north of me mate. 

 

QinteQ there is a fella near me who has a ICarsoft 980. Any idea if this would do a decent job reading the codes? He has offered to it free but i dont want waste his time if it wont work

Edited February 2, 2016 by darkchild101

[tomada3]

have heard if you park near telegraph pole or lamp post that that can cause immobiliser fault

it happenened to a owner on mk 1 t reg grand voyager they pushed it away from telegraph pole 

hey presto it started 

[QinteQ]

QinteQ there is a fella near me who has a ICarsoft 980. Any idea if this would do a decent job reading the codes? He has offered to it free but i dont want waste his time if it wont work

No its a toy., and a cheap one at that. Some cars are easy others near on impossible without 1/2 decent kit. My advice is if its free give it a shot, you never ever know, you might get lucky.The thing is there are x4 types of codes x2 of them can be read by anything one set can even be read and printed out in your dashboard by your IGN key. So some are are quite successful even in cheap readers but most of your problems are related to manufacturer codes and that needs a diagnostic scanner that will work to manufacturers protocols. Even a low level problem like your doors has a heck of a lot of levels and components and manufacturers programming input for example a Haynes manual covers every part of a whole car in 100 pages your doors alone are 200 pages in the Chrysler workshop manual.

[Demodocus]

My mate lives just north north of London on the Cambridge corridor, I live in the Boro, you are welcome to (2) a free read and code clears where they exist. Most code readers won't read Chrysler you need at least a good scanner. There's no such thing as a good scanner costing less than a £housand or £500 on a 'grey'. Long shot is - reset the computers by pulling the POS terminal for 16 minutes. Best of luck. [Caveat Emptor on any 2004 radio code issue]

Thanks for your advice i appreciate the offer. Although neither the RAC or the garage could sort out the problem by some miracle 3 days later the car just started on its own so I'm watching what happens next with some trepidation!!!

[QinteQ]

Thanks for your advice i appreciate the offer. Although neither the RAC or the garage could sort out the problem by some miracle 3 days later the car just started on its own so I'm watching what happens next with some trepidation!!!

 

HiYa Demodocus - Quickie on codes and why !

 

Powertrain ("P") codes [engine, transmission and emissions systems]

Body ("B") codes [Climate control system, lighting, airbags, etc.]

Chassis ("C") codes [antilock brake system, electronic suspension and steering systems]

Network Communications ("U") codes [controller area network wiring bus and modules are sub divided into 2 groups below

 

- Generic or Global codes, which have a "0" as their second digit to indicate they are common to all makes and models of vehicles. These are the codes that are required for basic emissions fault diagnosis.

and

 

- Enhanced or Manufacturer Specific codes, which have a "1" as their second digit to indicate they are unique to a particular vehicle make or model. These special codes were deemed necessary by the vehicle manufacturers so they could provide additional diagnostic information beyond the basic list of generic OBD II codes for all kinds of faults, not just emissions-related faults.

 

I said earlier that there are x4 types of codes x2 of them can be read by anything one set can even be read and printed out in your dashboard by your IGN key [Key dance is - on off on off on off on within 5 seconds]. The other two are almost impossible to even scan let alone interpret  with cheap scanners, it shouldn't surprise people that main stealers don't even want qualified engineers in proper garage set-ups to be able read them let alone DIY'ers. The RAC are normally good and have good pro- scanners available. Poor battery performance is often the cause of codes being reported, particularly recurring codes related to poor starting.

 

Cont 10th Feb 2016 - eyes getting glazed - they soon will be ...............

 

Most of the P's B's and C codes are 0's some however are 1's and hidden in the manufacturers section which is why even some good diagnostic scanners can't see them and all non-diagnostic scanners have no chance of ever seeing them, and then it gets even more complicated because many settings are enhanced but are also designated as 'user settings'. in a different section, some of these can be found in the EVIC, others can not. These 'user settings' cover things like :

 

- Customer Key Programming

- Automatic Door Lock enable / disable

- Remote Unlock Driver's Door 1st

- Sound Horn On Lock - banned in the UK

- Turn Off Flash Lights On Lock/Unlock

- Sliding Door Open Flash enable / disable

- Enhanced Driver Seat Belt Use Reminder System

- A/C Recirculation Programming

 

This is why well intentioned people go to a garage and are repeatedly told no mate - no codes showing like I said last time. The codes are there they're just not able to be seen. I've used many full spec & 'indi' scanners ranging from £1k to £4k and even these perform differently, the only ones that do consistently well are the makers own and a sub to the TechAuthority and of course even money alone can't easily buy one of these. Best of luck.

 

The battery is the prime, the single biggest cause of CAN BUS problems. low battery & arcing secondary ignition components particularly shorted electric motors often cause the PCI bus to react to the resulting electromagnetic interference sending the cars brains into a spin. In the 70's each individual sensor had to be 'hard wired' to a brain, by the late 70's the PCi BUS was invented and COMMS went over the PCi BUS. Then came the late 80's and computers began to be networked, cars were no different - auto gearbox's, anti-lock brakes and body controlled items such as lights entertainment and say-nav's were incorporated into the BUS protocol. The now old 2001 Cherokee still uses the antique CCD BUS, the 06 Jeep Liberty still uses the PCI BUS in tandem with the now internationally standard CAN BUS, most Chrysler's since 08 use PCi & CAN BUS protocols.

 

Suddenly two or more modules can talk electronic language to each other independently, for example the PCM shares ECT info with the EATC module. Here the [EATC] electronic automatic temperature control is informed by the [PCM] power control module of the [ECT] engine coolant temp and automatic temp control is adjusted without your human intervention. There are hundreds of the conversations per minute happening between two or more modules, each and every one of them has to find a seat on the BUS and be communicated to one or more of the brains. An example of this would be that if if all the PRNDL segments are illuminated it almost always suggests a COMMS issue between the instrument cluster and the TCM] transmission control module. All these simultaneous broadcast messages can bump into each other on the BUS so they are transmitted by order of ranked priority, those of low priority are left parked at the BUS stop until the [all happens in milliseconds] information highway is clear then they are allowed a seat on the BUS. Chrysler invented the ['98 bi-wire CCD] Chrysler collision detection system for just that purpose. Like many current vehicles, information in a CAN-equipped vehicle is shared over a serial data bus. The bus is the circuit that carries all the electronic chatter between modules (nodes). The bus may have one wire or two. If it has two, the wires are usually twisted to cancel out electromagnetic interference. The speed at which the bus carries information will vary depending on the "class" rating of the bus as well as the protocol to which it conforms.

 

 A data bus with a "Class A" speed rating is a relatively slow, low-speed circuit that typically carries less than 10 kilobits (10 Kbps) of information per second. A data bus that operates at Class A speeds is limited to simple command functions like operating power mirrors, power seats, power widows, power door locks, remote trunk releases and lights.

 

 A data bus with a "Class B" rating, by comparison, may operate from 10 Kbps up to 125 Kbps, depending on the operating protocol (SAE J1850 or Europe's ISO 9141-2). This is fast enough to carry more complex information and time-sensitive data. Systems that may may share a data bus with a Class B rating include electronic instrumentation, electronic transmission controls, security systems, and climate control. 

 

 Class C is currently the fastest data bus rating. Class C systems can operate at speeds up to 1 megabits per second, which is up to 100 times faster than a typical Class B data bus. Many of the vehicles that are currently using a Class C data bus are operating at speeds of around 500 Kbps, which is fast enough for powertrain control modules, air bag modules, and fast-acting antilock brake and stability control systems. Eeven faster CAN systems are coming with "class D" ratings of over 1 megabytes per second. And some applications such as onboard entertainment systems require even higher speed audio and video streaming.

 

All this intelligence has to be broadcast without corruption, and it all depends on many things being simultaneously perfect, particularly battery power levels, no brain can function without life .. .. and life in this case is supported by clean power from a battery. Hence the reason why pulling the NEG for 15 minutes [CAP & BATT] can re-set life itself by re-setting the BUS protocols.

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by QinteQ