SJC

My first port of call would be the battery. 

Voltage before first start, and charging voltage when running. 

If the charging voltage is below 14 (ideally 14.4) there's a modification you can do to get this up to the 14.4.

Hi Soupstone,

Can you tell me what that modification is (in Billy Basic terms). I am no mechanic, so if I can't do the mod myself i will have to explain it to my mechanic. 

Thanks

 

see here. I further adjusted the batteryMOD : 

 

I did a further mod and changed the the 33K Ω @ 1/2 watt to 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt keeps it under the 4.6[ish] [although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher]. I did get the extra .3's @ 14.4+ I was aiming for. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs. That thread is here and I can confirm that I had 14.5-6V over the winter and its now an average of 14.3-4V summer.

 

Best of luck.....

 

Hi QinteQ,

Thank you for your reply. I'll be honest, I don't have the level of understanding to interpret your answer, so not sure what I am supposed to do (in laymans terms) I think i just need a good Automotive Electrical Mechanic to fault find for me, but i will show them your findings to help fast track the issue. 

I really thought I had nailed it with the new battery as it got me right through the winter with no trouble at all. It is as if the parasitic drain had gone away and has now come back.

Anyway thanks again for trying to help.

Summary and up -date

I have been through a cycle of issues to do with starting.(dial sweep and then poor starting)

Initially I charged battery. Some improvement for a day or so.

Then I replaced rail pressure valve (immediate improvement)

Then after a while it (a few months) it wouldn't start so well (needed a few attempts) and recharging battery didn't work. So I replaced the battery like for like. That worked for a while......but then it stated to cut out when driving, so replaced fuel filter housing. No improvement, so changed injectors (£1400). Immediate improvement to cut out problem....then the starting problem returned (dials doing a sweep and not starting first time)

...so I  replaced battery with a much more powerful battery (£300 worth of battery) Immediate improvement.

1 year later (now) I get dial sweep and poor starting again (dial sweep and 3 or 4 attempts to start)......even after a full charge of the battery.

So I am looking at parasitic drains now.

Have removed fuse for stereo amplifier, but no difference.

Does anyone know how to isolate / disable the tracker, as I have heard that is a potential cause of a battery drain?

Just wanted to post another follow-up, I'm still free of engine cutting out, but it still doesn't feel like it's running smoothly. So my summary of what's gone on:

 

• Filter change, ensuring housing is tight and seal correct - essential
• Running injector/diesel cleaner through the tank a few times - seems to improve things
• Fuel heater - unsure if this makes any difference at all!
• Replacing the MAP/TC sensor - this seems to have solved the issue for me

So for now, a cold start seems OK (Bit of a chug but starts generally first time with a cloud of smoke (unburnt diesel))

A warm start seems troublesome, it'll turn over and over without seeming to 'catch' or fire, but waggling the accelerator whilst turning it over and sometimes clicking the ignition on and off a couple of times will make it start.

I'm not 100% on the cause of that warm start problem at the moment, it also feels like it's running a little rough between the 2.5 and 3k revs area but not significantly. Idling is fine no stutters, power and acceleration are there (I can foot to floor and belt it up a hill without hesitation).

Hi AndyB2000,

Could you please tell me  a little bit more about what the MAP/TC is. What do those initials stand for? 

My car has only cut out once since having the injectors changed....but once is enough. I have done all of the things you mentioned except the MAP/TC.  Can you tell me what you know about this and how it might help prevent another cut out? Many thanks

Sam

Hi have same problem as most GV crd's this time of year bad starting and flat battery. 18 months ago I bought an exide EP 450 which has now given up and which the rac man tested and told me its faulty. So now not sure which to go for do I go for the optima redtop or the bigger exide EK508 or as someone else has put a Varta blue F18. The redtop and ek508 are about £160 not sure about the price of the f18 . Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks All I want is a battery that will do the job without the worry of wondering if it will start or not I am also one of those who only use it for small trips most of the time then a couple of times a year to tow my caravan on nice long trips.

I have gone for a Odyssey PC1500-34/78 Battery. Cost nearly £300, but has made a world of difference. I run my car on short journeys everyday, so is up against worst-case scenario.

Only been a month or so....will return here to let you all know if it was a waste of money.

Sounds like bad earth, had it on mine. Cheap easy thing to try as well. Take your jumper cables put one end on negative and the other clamp to starter motor mounting bolts. If car turns over easier. Fit new earth to start motor mounting bolt. I left old earth just joined onto new earth battery clamp.

Thanks Alex.....Would that cause a cut-out whilst driving?

Or it is a potential solution to non-starting issue?

SJ

Why did the battery stop turning the engine over?

I am not sure. I dont think the battery that was fitted recently has enough Cranking amps and it is good for a few turn overs, and then after a few failed attempts of turning the engine, when i turn the key, the ignition simply clicks (with a red flashing light on steering column and the hazards turn on for 2 or 3 flashes.) It seems to be a flat battery, but i am not convinced. The car seems to decide that it will not even try to turn the engine (so you never hear it turning over slowly....it just stops turning over suddenly and it goes into flash lights mode. Jump starts fine, and then will start on its own thereafter.

So garage have fitted 4 new injectors, and it so far so good. They have tested it and cannot replicate the cutting out. I have only driven it short distance, but it starts well (when previously it didn't) and it hasn't cut out, when previously it might have.

 

If anything changes I will get back on here, but for anyone else who is experiencing poor starting and cutting out here is the order of events for me:

 

• Fuel Filter
• Pressure relief valve
• Fuel filter housing and wiring loom
• Pressure sensor on fuel rail
• Injector testing
• New injectors

 

All working fine....up until this morning (-6 degrees C). Started fine , drove 5 minutes down the road and it cuts out. Loss of power steering, but lights still on.

Managed to get it t started with booster pack, because battery stopped turning the engine over (just clicked)

Then after a 10 minute journey and parking up, it cuts out when stationary, after i gave it some high revs, took foot off gas, and it then stalled. 

Started again, gave it some gas in "Park" and it cutout again.

When driving there does seem to be some lag between gear changes at low revs, or when it drops a gear.......but cant quite put my finger on it. My hunch is that there is some electrical control system which is delivering fuel which is not working....but i don't know enough about cars to be any more specific. 

Any clues anyone?

Expensive, but if it cures it forever its money that had to be spent. hanks for informing the group.

Thank QinteQ. It was a bit pricey, but I wouldn't sell on a dangerous car, and it was cheaper than buying a new car. The group has been helpful, so happy to record my experience. 

So garage have fitted 4 new injectors, and it so far so good. They have tested it and cannot replicate the cutting out. I have only driven it short distance, but it starts well (when previously it didn't) and it hasn't cut out, when previously it might have.

If anything changes I will get back on here, but for anyone else who is experiencing poor starting and cutting out here is the order of events for me:

• Fuel Filter
• Pressure relief valve
• Fuel filter housing and wiring loom
• Pressure sensor on fuel rail
• Injector testing
• New injectors

My car has been renamed Triggers Broom!

So the PCM [[Powertrain Control Modules (PCM)]] [regulates the cooling fan, air conditioning and speed control systems etc and changes the alternator charge rate by adjusting the alternator field] it also performs diagnostic functions such as on the PCM Valve relay : petrol.

Thank you. Hopefully the injectors were the cause of my cut outs, but I guess the PCM could be on the "suspects" list.

Hi Andyb2000,

The garage did a leak back test (I think), which indicated the injectors could be failing but they told me that the test could not be 100% conclusive. So they employed a specialist injector tester, who can somehow assess the functioning of the injectors (for £30 an injector) and that would tell us for sure if they were failing or functioning correctly. 3 of mine were failing and the 4th did not have a good spray profile apparently.

The specialist said that with failing injectors, he would expect the car to cut out suddenly. However, this does not mean the injectors are the final piece of the jigsaw, as it is possible that something else has also failed, and finding the fault with the injectors was a "happy" coincidence, and they would have needed to be replaced anyway. 

The only other clue i have is that it  stalled when it dropped down a gear to over take, whilst the cruise control was active. However, I could easily replicate the issue, without cruise control on, so probably nothing to do with the cruise control, but more like an acceleration issue, which maybe consistent with what the injector specialist was saying. 

Yes  this is costing me a small fortune but, I can't sell a cut that cuts out, (other than for scrap) and £2000 is not going to buy me what i need, so a case of suck it up and hope they eventually find the offending part.

I will find out tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks for looking to the PCM Valve relay...I don't even know what it is or what it does. 

Cheers

I will find out tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks for looking to the PCM Valve relay...I don't even know what it is or what it does. 

SJC, when was the fuel filter last changed? 

Twice I've removed and refitted the filters on GVs and it has solved a cutting out issue, as they were letting in air. Both had had recent filter changes and the bowl or filter not tightened enough.

 

 

 

Very recently...last month,

Injectors were in need of replacement. I find out today if that has solved the problem. 

HI andyb2000,

Do you know what the pcm valve relay is? 

It was mentioned in this post as the solution....see last post...

http://www.chryslerforum.co.uk/topic/1938-intermittent-cut-out/?hl=%2Bcutting+%2Bout&do=findComment&comment=8379

Thanks

Hi Soupstone and Nathanevans:

I have had the fuel filter replaced very recently (and got the garage to check that they tightened it enough and did not leave the old o-ring in place). This was at the same time as the fuel pressure sensor being replaced and the pressure relief valves being replaced.  Replacing the pressure relief valve solved the starting problem. 

The car then started to cut out (new problem, which only presented after fixing the starting problem). The garage replace the fuel filter housing and associated electrical connections(there was a crack and wetness, as described).

The garage are now looking at injectors, which will cost £££.

The garage ave been able  to replicate the fault in road tests, but are unsure if it is electrical or fuel related. They initially thought fuel, then changed their minds as it was cutting out so suddenly (i.e. without spluttering), and now they are thinking fuel again.

The car is not presenting any fault codes, so thinks that everything is OK.....I felt slightly differently when it cut out when I was driving at 70mph on the motorway...without a hard shoulder to pull over on to!!!

I trust the garage, but was wondering if anyone else had experienced the same problem, and it turned out to be a different fix other than fuel filter or filter housing.

Someone mentioned a PVC Valve relay....but I do not know what that is. Any clues.

Thanks

Hi I had the same problem.

 

Changed fuel pressure relief valve at the end of the fuel rail -  still cut out and difficult to start.

Replaced fuel filter housing with uprated design (original can crack and let in air in where the fuel heater plugs in) - still cut out etc.

Renewed  all injectors and glow plugs - problem not solved.

Changed fuel metering solenoid on the fuel pump - problem solved.

 

Diagnostics are fairly limited, I took my car to a diesel specialist who used the lastest Bosch equipment.

Also pressure tested the the output of the fuel pump, tests indicated all systems working OK.

He did suggest changing the solenoid as a last resort. 

ctc

So what was the outcome? Did you fix the issue? I am going through the same list (i am currently looking at replacing injectors).

pressure relief valve £50

Although it solved my initial problem, the car now cuts out when driving. Bigger problem.

Hi Jembutler.

Did you find a solution? I have exactly the same problem, same model...fitted pressure relief valve to cure starting issue which worked well, but now I have the cutting out problem. 

Currently in the garage but they are scratching their heads. 

They are looking at injectors (£££)

Can you shed any light?