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2.8 Crd Won't Start


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38 replies to this topic

#21 oldginger

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 07:36 PM

Hi everyone, I had the battery fully charged today and then went through the suggested procedures before cranking. the temp gauge gently moved up and down before settling on the quarter mark. Car turned over vigorously but no attempt to fire. I went through the door locking, bonnet opening and closing routine again and checked everything as i turned on the ignition. everything was perfect, turned key and it whizzed over but did not fire. I have noticed a common theme with the fuel pressure relief valve but i guess i need a proper analyser and all faults cleared. 



#22 QinteQ

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 09:27 PM

Aye, let us know on progress oldginger, hopefully it's good news.
@QinteQ thanks buddy, I'm sure we can come to some agreement on it, is it this Wednesday you're at your lads as I'll come over for a chat? Think we can get it through an MOT then you can keep using it till next Xmas time?

Moving to Yatton next week, need GV till I chuck this house in. Not giving this one up till Xmas earliest.

Wasn't thinking of selling you GV..... It's a damn fine very good car - just long in years like me Andy. Sale price was decided last Xmas as £1 English ♿

#23 QinteQ

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 10:00 PM

Hi everyone, I had the battery fully charged today and then went through the suggested procedures before cranking. the temp gauge gently moved up and down before settling on the quarter mark. Car turned over vigorously but no attempt to fire. I went through the door locking, bonnet opening and closing routine again and checked everything as i turned on the ignition. everything was perfect, turned key and it whizzed over but did not fire. I have noticed a common theme with the fuel pressure relief valve but i guess i need a proper analyser and all faults cleared.

I'll have a think ginger. SKIM/SKREEM and 'trigger wire' prime suspects, secondary would be LP fuel supply. 1/4 on temp design normal, I prefer 1/2 for winteriZing/quicker warm up/reduced diesel costs. I also have Webasto secondary water heater assist.

Have you knocked/moved/touched the spade wire on top of the starter motor? That's'triggered' by the IGN when you turn the key - the starter will spin like a banshee but 'trigger' (control wire) allows or denies combustion. Very skinny arms an torch or thin bamboo garden cane with a notch cut in it to move wire on spade!

#24 bignev

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 10:20 PM

Hi guys. I've stayed out of the discussion as I'm not a diesel owner, but I just thought I should clarify the point of a 1/4 way up the TEMP gauge - the engine isn't running, it surely should be at the bottom? ?
Now I don't think that if the ecu thought it was warmer it wouldn't start, my diesels fire up with NO glow plug action from cold so pretty sure that's not where I'm heading. But WHY is it reading way warmer than it is?
I guess you've tried a tickle or more of throttle?
Or ginger did you mean the fuel gauge? As you said on your second post.
Totally appreciate you've got a whole bucket of poo going on mate. I wish I was closer to give you a hand on this. We were there 2 years ago with my wife's mum.

Edited by bignev, 30 August 2020 - 10:22 PM.


#25 oldginger

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Posted 31 August 2020 - 07:01 AM

HI. On reflection it has only been the temp. gauge that has moved up and down. Apologies for a misleading statement, heads a bit messed up, so to clarify, it turns over really good and all gauges are ok except the temp. gauge that slowly moves up about a 5 millimetres and then settles back when key is first turned. I find it strange that it was ok earlier in the day and later it just would not fire, and still does not fire. Modern cars and their stupid computers, ugh. Just tried it this morning and still no joy not that i expected any. Back to nursing, I hope I will find more time to have a play later.


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#26 andyb2000

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Posted 01 September 2020 - 10:40 AM

Moving to Yatton next week, need GV till I chuck this house in. Not giving this one up till Xmas earliest.

Wasn't thinking of selling you GV..... It's a damn fine very good car - just long in years like me Andy. Sale price was decided last Xmas as £1 English ♿

No problem buddy, will await further instruction ;-) hope the move goes okay.

 

@oldginger hope you can find something, good thinking by @bignev there, good spot! But potentially red herring.

 

 

It's really sounding like an electrical gremlin which is bad news, ECU or immobiliser I think. The fact it doesn't even try to even catch when turning over is suggesting less fuel starvation (even the worst pressure relief valve would make it sound like it was stuttering/trying) and more the ECU just isn't firing the injectors or giving it the 'will' to live.

 

As time isn't your friend at the moment it's difficult to know what to suggest. I'd be thinking of possibly injector diesel leak off test, at least you'd know diesel was returning from the injectors.

I know this sounds silly, but have you checked all the fuses in the fusebox?



#27 QinteQ

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Posted 01 September 2020 - 11:32 AM

Eliminate the obvious. It has fuel, LP compression to filter/HP pump and full CCA crank. What's missing? SMIM SKREEM permission!. It will have the SKIM code in the BCM the SKREEM is only voltage, voltage is the tiny IGN to IPM to "trigger spade" on the top of the starter motor.

A DVOM will prove it in a second.

#28 oldginger

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Posted 01 September 2020 - 07:54 PM

Hi QinteQ your write up reminds me of my army days working with American technicians in the sixties. Their abbreviations used to bamboozle me but I guess your suggesting I check the power supply to the top of the starter motor. I have left a message for a local mobile auto electrician that I have used before so hopefully he will be in touch soon. Many neighbours and friends are offering help so supplies etc. are covered. Thanks to all contributors you've been very helpful. I hope this problem will be resolved soon. T.T.F.N. (still old school).



#29 QinteQ

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Posted 01 September 2020 - 10:55 PM

Hi QinteQ your write up reminds me of my army days working with American technicians in the sixties. Their abbreviations used to bamboozle me but I guess your suggesting I check the power supply to the top of the starter motor. I have left a message for a local mobile auto electrician that I have used before so hopefully he will be in touch soon. Many neighbours and friends are offering help so supplies etc. are covered. Thanks to all contributors you've been very helpful. I hope this problem will be resolved soon. T.T.F.N. (still old school).

Ditto mucker, boys company Pirbright 62, Then usual Knightsbridge, Chelsea, Windsor, then Kenya, Yemen and others before demob.

You could just take the black plaggie cover off engine block and see the spade connection with a torch. If it's connected it's sometimes just not 'making' a good enough connect. If you're getting a man in I suggest he spanners bolts and nips spade after cleaning etc, he'll know the full monty. Or any handy willing neighbour could do it.

Best of luck.

#30 oldginger

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 10:47 PM

Sorry for delay in update, busy with wife's illness. Car tech checked out car on Wednesday afternoon and just had to be the main ECU. He has sent it away to be repaired by a close mate whom he trusts. I will update when it is refitted. 


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#31 bignev

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:02 PM

Hiya chaps! Do the Voyagers have a non return valve on the low pressure system on the way to the fuel filter?

 

I ask as last year my Renault van decided to be a bit of a naughty thing, and would wind over and not start on a couple of occasions. Giving it throttle made no difference. 

 

Called my breakdown service and they popped out and read no faults at all. Because it wasn't a problem with the electronics as it turns out.

 

Next time thankfully my brain quickly put together lots of the bits from this forum on some of the problems, came up with a fuel situation, and pumped the primer bulb on the inlet to the filter in the engine bay - quite high up I might add, well above the top of the engine by about 7" I reckon, took a couple of goes but then it chugged into life, got itself going and was fine while running. I got to my job, after 5 minutes went to move the van and it told me to bog off. 

 

After a few failed attempts we hit on this - with the aid of my mate, I pumped the primer bulb while he cranked it over, and it eventually chimed into life. Drove fine on the way home. 

 

New in line primer bulb / non return valve later and it was back to usual. I didn't touch anything else at all, so I can absolutely rule out any air leaks etc.


Edited by bignev, 09 September 2020 - 06:20 PM.


#32 QinteQ

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 01:32 PM

This is the uni Lucas fitted to my 05 nev

 

https://www.ebay.co....e-/192779554591

 

s-l1600.jpg


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#33 bignev

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:18 PM

Ah, ok, I reckon the non return's part of that primer button assembly diaphragm.

 

I'm thinking that if @RichardM is priming his frequently, then as you say something is causing it to "break the vacuum" in my plumbing terms to enable it to leak fuel back to the tank.

 

As a matter of interest, the rubber primer bulb (inc the new one) on my van isn't hard, I though I'd check it to see if it's any different to other times I have in years past, I can pump it probably 4 times before it feels properly firm, but it doesn't hesitate to start up without touching it.

 

So on my van, the fuel pressure from the primer, up into the filter housing, then out and down to the high pressure pump inlet on the engine isn't actually under pressure as such, but is completely full of fluid - diesel mostly  :D - that is then under suction when the engine is running.

 

I think it was you @QinteQ who has pointed out before that the primer should and needs to go firm when it's used, or otherwise there's very likely a problem in the fuel system.


Edited by bignev, 10 September 2020 - 05:25 PM.


#34 gordy

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 07:39 PM

Well the primer button is a good answer as it was: a/like/don't say/please don't/ I will break free here and say "Virus". For about a good few months on here not long back, about every answer was: fuel filter housing cracks where wire goes in.. Or seal at filter letting air in. Or Button not hard when pressed. Or Air getting into button housing, diaghram possibly. Course battery was always easy answer. No answer yet, like one of my diy jobs that goes on and on. Come to think of it my cars MOT is up on the 10th of Sept.

Edited by gordy, 10 September 2020 - 07:42 PM.


#35 RichardM

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 06:55 PM

Starting getting worse, now thinking the actual primer pump may be the cause or curse.... Trouble is where do I get the bits to overhaul it or where do I get a new one from ? I love this old bus, it's the only thing I've found that's big enough for me BUT I'm getting frustrated with the whole starting issue.. HELP>


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#36 RichardM

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 07:03 PM

Sorry but just noted the link to ebay Lucas primer - is this what's fitted or does it require some mods for a 2007 CRD. On the issue of maintenance, is there a w/s manual for this specific engine. I downloaded a set for the Voyager and it is very sparse on diesels and mentions things that do not exist - like lift pumps etc. ? ? ?


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#37 QinteQ

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Posted 11 September 2020 - 09:14 PM

See: http://oskin.ru/pub/...rsions_Include/

Includes 2.5+2.8crd's, the mk4 covers up to 07. You will see the diesel.pdf file. Best of luck.

#38 mechcanico

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Posted 12 September 2020 - 09:58 AM

On vehicles that do not have a electric submerged intank primer pumps , the main hp pump has a vaccum section built on to it , best way to check for air ingress is to 'clear pipe it up ' you break into the lines at the hp pump ... feed and return ...it is then possible to see the fuel flow and which way any air bubbles are migrating rather than randomly guessing at parts like i see on all owners forums .....have this mantra ...."what if i fit part X and it does not fix it then what ?? Test not guess .....everything is testable...you just have to have the knowledge how to and the correct kit .....if you do not have the correct kit then it just boils down to 'guess a part' till the customer runs out if money like i see nearly every day at work

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#39 gordy

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:19 PM

Any answer to this ?




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