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2.8 Crd Won't Start


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#1 oldginger

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 09:54 AM

Hi everyone. Jumped in car last night to move it, turned over normally but would not start. I had been out in it earlier and all was well. My mechanic friend has had a look at it and it is fuelling ok. His reader only covers petrol models. I have no books so can someone explain the key dance procedure as we believe it could be an immobiliser issue. Any other ideas would be appreciated, thanks in anticipation, old ginger.



#2 oldginger

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 10:46 AM

Old ginger here. I don't know how to add more info, so using the reply. Reconnected battery and tried to start it using both keys in turn. Turns over well but no joy. I did notice the fuel gauge needle slowly going right up and then down continuously, Hope someone has some pointers.



#3 QinteQ

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 12:13 PM

Yes it could be many things. Starting point is to reboot the computers. I need to know year + is it 2.8 CRD or 2.4 CRD ?.

You probably have nothing more than a "low battery condition" (lack of use - search for 'lifestyle' or 'low fuel'.or.'LP issues'. Either way diagnosis starts with rebooting the three computers.

Key dance and Chrysler's own workshop manuals can be found on this very forum free of charge. Year and engine size 1st please.

#4 QinteQ

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:38 PM

manuals: http://oskin.ru/pub/...aravan_Voyager/

 

take you pick: https://www.chrysler...age6/#post97104

 

 

 

 

 

 



#5 oldginger

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 09:58 PM

Hi, my car is a 2005 Chrysler Grand Voyager LX crd 2.8 stow n go , I think its RG  and its an auto. At the moment my wife is in the final stages of cancer so my head is a little foggy. Not a lot of time to spare researching but trying to get info for my mechanic friend. As mentioned  before in my ownership everything has been done over the last year and it passed mot recently with no advisories. It has a new top of the range red top battery as recommended by Groves Batteries in Cheltenham. Just checked first registration, Nov. 2005. Regards oldginger.



#6 QinteQ

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 10:41 PM

I have recommended red top's for those who can't won't fit an 800CCA/80 fit a tiny GV battery tray. Of course even the RTC 4.2 which is 815CCA can an will go flat or reduce to the point where your car registers a "no start" condition to the software. Fortunately this can be tested by just rebooting the computers and allowing the software to prove its connection to each component.

I'm using my telephone, I'll write here the sequence for rebooting the computers tomorrow. You have an RG 2.8 on an 05EURO. NOTE: swinging needles is a classic indicator of "low battery condition" errors!

#7 oldginger

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 11:26 PM

Hi, thanks for your help. I may be a little slow replying, got a lot going on, but I need my car up and running. thanks once again.



#8 andyb2000

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 10:17 AM

Could be a lot of things.
Always a good call to disconnect battery to reboot computers as qinteq says, gives you a clean slate to start with. (Disconnect battery, leave for an hour (I think from memory), reconnect and do doors lock then unlock)

So cold start or warm start it now won't fire at all? Does it sound like it's trying to fire or just turning over on the starter?

It sounds fuel starvation or immobilizer. If mechanic only reads petrol codes then you'll not get the crd pressure values, etc which are key here.
Does yours have the red led on top of steering column? It flashes when car locked and 'armed' then should be off when starting, see what it does. Unlikely both keys lost their programming though.
Other option is low fuel pressure due to the pressure relief valve going faulty and not leaving enough pressure in the fuel rail. Difficult to test for this unfortunately without diagnostic gear, pulling codes may read low pressure but not sure since it's not starting.
Good luck and if we think of more ideas we'll post back!

#9 oldginger

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 10:23 AM

Hi,  At nearly 72 and with very shaky hands I managed to do the key dance thanks to this forum. the codes are all P prefix ;  0190, 0651, 0641, 2120, 0520, 0235, 0115, 0105, 0110, 0514. Battery has full charge, car turns over fast, just wont fire. I had this on a Trajet, it was the immobiliser. I am trying to find a code list but I have not succeeded yet. All help very much appreciated regards oldginger.



#10 oldginger

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 10:34 AM

Hi, andyb2000 we were typing at the same time, I did disconnect battery for about half an hour, I did not know the door gig i'll give it another go, thanks, oldginger.



#11 QinteQ

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 10:42 AM

- "turned over normally but wouldn't start"

Sounds like (1) your battery needs a full charge or (2) jump leads from your mechanics car running on his 160amp alternator for boost for a full 5 minutesl (or 3) another type of issue.

If your mechanic and yourself do manage to get it going you're going to have to not switch off and go for an immediate 50 mile run at 50MPH to recharge your tiny 50aH redtop, don't switch off till you're back in safe area.

Your car radio is coded to the BCM so you can not lose your radio code.

#12 andyb2000

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 11:03 AM

Those codes listed go from high voltage above threshold, oil pressure, boost map pressure, 02 sensor outside threshold.
(For code list just type "p0651 Chrysler grand voyager" into Google and most of them pop the answer out!)
So those I'd say point to battery problems as lowbattery drives it crazy and sensor values go screwy so I'd not hold too many of those to account.

I think qinteq is right, get on a set of jump leads and give it a real kick of power. Diesels need a heck of a jolt to start (especially if maybe one or more glowplugs also have failed)

The other option, worryingly may be if the over voltage error is correct the alternator may have sent a spike and caused damage.
All guessing games though I'm afraid.

#13 andyb2000

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 11:05 AM

By the way, where in the country are you (roughly), as I'm north east, but right this minute I'm in Kent and I'm sure others on the forum might spare a bit of time to take a quick look if you're desperate

#14 QinteQ

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 12:36 PM

By the way, where in the country are you (roughly), as I'm north east, but right this minute I'm in Kent and I'm sure others on the forum might spare a bit of time to take a quick look if you're desperate

.1.

 

Andy, with Gingers problems you could .. .. become a northerner angel. a simple whack with jumpers on donor car's alternators 1500RPM output for 5 minutes would certainly bank enough aH to spin him up. He MUST however invest an immediate vLong run to replace used aH/CCA. 

 

.2.

 

On a different subject I'm due an MOT, still uber low mileage but intend handing in my licence after Xmas.  I can sell or just meet you @ Jimmy's and give it away to you. it is now old but runs better than when I bought it.

 

tell me what you think,, ,, ,,  'R' 



#15 oldginger

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 01:56 PM

With my wife's situation lots of neighbours and family have offered help so as its bank holiday I will follow yours and QinteQ's  advice and have a play when i can, and if the trouble persists I know a really good car electrics man that may be able to help. Either way any other ideas or thoughts are welcome and i will keep the forum updated.Thanks guys, to me your all stars. oldginger. 



#16 QinteQ

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 03:22 PM

10 engineers 10 different opinions. Generally diagnostics is a menu.from easy DIY cheap to complex professional expensive. What I wrote to Andy said that 5 minutes of jumper leads @ alternator 180ah is 900aH into your 50aH battery. More than enough to start your GV. Once started, keep it running, you should go on a long ride to completely recharge your battery.

The above assumes you have LP (low pressure) fuel supply. Best of luck. Want to know more ask.

#17 gordy

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 06:12 PM

Yes swinging needles do point to battery problems like Captain says, but battery is whipping engine over ok. Yes well usually does to confuse you as it wants to live.
Seem to think there's a broken wire there somewhere as there's 4 thinks out of threshold. High voltage. Oil pressure. Boost pressure. 02 Sensor. Are these all atop engine under the cover.
Need to check my info on this one.

#18 QinteQ

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 07:57 PM

Chrysler's pulse width modulated design signal alternators are known because of their tendancy to spike because the PCM continually swtches between full whack and total off Gordy. Hence my reason for the "batteryMOD"

#19 andyb2000

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 08:17 AM

Aye, let us know on progress oldginger, hopefully it's good news.

@QinteQ thanks buddy, I'm sure we can come to some agreement on it, is it this Wednesday you're at your lads as I'll come over for a chat? Think we can get it through an MOT then you can keep using it till Xmas time?

#20 gordy

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 12:50 PM

Fuel Rail Pressure Relief Valve. Now here's an item that when its on its way out causes problems. People have relented to new batteries to repair fault. Now batteries get old like we all do (bugger) and Captain could write a book on this.
So its speed of turning that engine over that fires it up. As relief valve wears it lets more fuel through that it should so pressure in rail reduces causing not just no start but other faults like engine cutting out on powering.




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