Which Battery?

[daveonwheels11]

Hi have same problem as most GV crd's this time of year bad starting and flat battery. 18 months ago I bought an exide EP 450 which has now given up and which the rac man tested and told me its faulty. So now not sure which to go for do I go for the optima redtop or the bigger exide EK508 or as someone else has put a Varta blue F18. The redtop and ek508 are about £160 not sure about the price of the f18 . Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks All I want is a battery that will do the job without the worry of wondering if it will start or not I am also one of those who only use it for small trips most of the time then a couple of times a year to tow my caravan on nice long trips.

[daveonwheels11]

Got a f18 yesterday and fitted it so fingers crossed I should be OK for some time thanks for your help QinteQ it's nice to know people can be so helpful

[QinteQ]

The F18 is 55mm longer, you will need to MOD the battery tray and maybe one long-side battery hold down lip. Redtops will fit and do work. The EP 450 can't be jiggered - get it de-sloughed on a 9 stage charger.

 

- lifestyle - frequent use - winter starts - duration [50 miles every other day] of recharge from the alternator - no intervention needed

- lifestyle - infrequent use - semi-permanent advanced microprocessor controlled battery charger, the excellent MP7428 9 stage @ about £30 is an alternative to the double the price CTEK 5.0

- the buttonMOD works well, is safe and will give a lot more aH in a short charge time window

- 4 years ago

 

 

Best of luck.

[daveonwheels11]

I will try the 7 stage charging on my ep450 as a spare so which of the two batteries you have said would you think is the best bet for my car which is a 2007 Grand Voyager 2.8 crd executive. I understand the redtop will go straight in and I will have to cut the battery tray for the f18 which I can do just need someone who has had both tell me which one to spend my money on which I don't have a lot of because I am disabled.i just need not to have to worry about going to my car and it not starting which isn't great when u use a wheelchair hence the daveonwheels in my user name anyway thanks for you help

[QinteQ]

I drive a WAV. I like the big bank bank that is the F18 type generally, the optima redtops work well even the powerline budget brand work well, but at the end of the day lifestyle will kill even a top end high recharge efficiency deep cycle big bank Odyssey @ £270.

 

I've got a Boost for when I'm caught out.Every day is F18. Spare is an S5 010 and is permanently on 100% charged for up to 9 months of the year. Overkill ? - yeh probably.

[QinteQ]

7 stage whilst good and will include float + pulse / maintenance normally does not treat sulphated. Mind you yours might not be actually sulph[ed]. Never believe what you are told by anyone with the usual garbage in/out 100a drop tester. A proper one such as a BA7 that auto rages flooded AGM flat plat Spirals and gel's etc is a reliable read of CCA's at any point in time.

[daveonwheels11]

Thanks for your help I think I might go for the F18 and keep my old battery on trickle charge once I have had a go at the 7 stage charging that is. I know what you mean about not believing some people cos since that day my battery went flat and had it jump started it's been OK ever since. Even after saying that I still think it would put my mind at rest if I got the F18 and kept my ep450 as a back up like you do,better safe then sorry and I won't have to wait ages for the man in his orange van to turn up. My next job is glow plugs cos going through the FSH they have never been changed I have heard they can be a bit of a pig to get out and I should soak them with wd40 before I even try to get the old ones out. At least the weather is getting better cos of the old disability I can't do much on my GV when it's too cold or wet.

[QinteQ]

F18 and keep my old battery on trickle charge

 

Would be a safe option providing you change it before it gets very low. The danger of lifestyle is that it gives out at that exact moment you are miles from home and the spare fully charges ep450. Best of luck to you.

[QinteQ]

A whole £2 spent on this.

 

12.65 = 100%

12.45 = 075%

12.24 = 050%

12.06 = 025%

11.89 = 000% dead as a dodo

 

Will tell you when [25%] you need to change / charge. Make sure you use the switch-able low output cigarette lighter socket on the RHS.

 

 

[daveonwheels11]

One more thing thanks for the link on amazon at £1.99 u have to get one and I will be able to keep tabs of the state of charge on my battery cheers

[QinteQ]

- don't start the engine

- REM the digital volt meter will initially read very low [glow plugs + interior lights] so wait 30 seconds after getting in the car

- you are welcome daveonwheels

[SJC]

Hi have same problem as most GV crd's this time of year bad starting and flat battery. 18 months ago I bought an exide EP 450 which has now given up and which the rac man tested and told me its faulty. So now not sure which to go for do I go for the optima redtop or the bigger exide EK508 or as someone else has put a Varta blue F18. The redtop and ek508 are about £160 not sure about the price of the f18 . Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks All I want is a battery that will do the job without the worry of wondering if it will start or not I am also one of those who only use it for small trips most of the time then a couple of times a year to tow my caravan on nice long trips.

I have gone for a Odyssey PC1500-34/78 Battery. Cost nearly £300, but has made a world of difference. I run my car on short journeys everyday, so is up against worst-case scenario.

Only been a month or so....will return here to let you all know if it was a waste of money.

[QinteQ]

Plates are lead .... not lead alloy and 850CCA is a very big thumping crank. Good kit, very good kit.

 

A whole £2 spent on this.

 

12.65 = 100%

12.45 = 075%

12.24 = 050%

12.06 = 025%

11.89 = 000% dead as a dodo

 

SJC even a battery of this quality will let you down [lifestyle] if you don't charge it up. See above an additional £2QUID will tell you when [25%] you need to change / charge. Make sure you use the switch-able low output cigarette lighter socket on the RHS.

 

Best of luck.

 

[BumBle02]

Well the Varta F18 battery did not fit in my CGV 2.8 crd 2007 I had to  mod the battery by cutting the  fitting lugs off the to ends of the battery. All so take the protecting cover of the ECU the one in front of the battery  and resealing it from water and it went in wow did not expect that.

Edited August 8, 2018 by BumBle02

[stevesmp]

Well it looks like I will be needing a new battery on my GV 2.8 CDR after having been through a number of batteries over the years. 

 

Reading the thread it would seem that the F 18 is the one to go for, with a modification. Is the modification just a case of cutting out

the battery tray in order that the battery remains flush to the tray, or is it not as simple as that.

 

 

Currently I have a Solite battery which is 277mm in length and is quite awkward to place in the existing space. Any comment would be appreciate as I would hate to purchase

something I can't use.  Rgs . Steve

 

[QinteQ]

1st Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:26 PM

Battery

 

Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.

 

Different people have success with different batteries dependant on lifestyle, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80. Best of luck.

 

Power seat fuse : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM

 

Lifestyle : Two short 15 minute trips once a week.

 

The  higher  the  voltage  applied,  the  faster the battery will charge, charging at too  high a voltage WILL  damage  your  battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid  battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :

 

- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A

- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]

- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A

- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]

 

Its not linear so :

 

- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;

- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement  of  about  300%

 

The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is summer the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.

 

- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.00 volts  is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator

- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing

- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time

 

NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions [parasitic drain] that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull [Chrysler Worksop Manuals] a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I have tested solar maintenance and it is not cost effective,they are :

 

• Electrical items left on.

• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.

• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.

• An internally shorted generator.

• Intermittent shorts in the wiring

Remote key fob

Radio

Heater blower

Folding mirrors

Central locks

Interior lights when the key is in the ignition

 

IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :

 

Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault

The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.

 

BatteryMOD

 

I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.

 

I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Update - Tested over three summers .... smack on 14.2-6+ winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased with output / behaviour / safety !

*************************

Halfords et-al

 

Rang first to check stock, then went to Halfords, ordered their own recommended [put your registration in] 5 year warranted battery the HSB096 @ £129:99 while the nice clepto-cashier lady was emptying my plastic I flicked up the terminal covers to find the Terminals were the wrong way [o O - they should be - O o] round.

http://i40.tinypic.com/1y8j2r.gif

A 12 year old expert fully trained and certificated male assistant wiped the dribble from his nose and stormed out to my MOTA in the rain which was splattering against his thin bony shoulders making a mess of his over white freshly ironed by his Mother .. .. shirt, all the time asserting in a very authoritative way why I was wrong and why it could not possibly be their 'fittings dBase', his matchstick like thin arms finally managed to lift the bonnet without breaking any of his arms only to find the common standard terminals.

I did try to help his embarrassment, honest I did, I even offered him one of my Wurthers Originals and assured him we all make mistakes .. .. its all part of life's long learning .. .. but I still want my £230 snots back and I want them now. So now I'm back to where I started, I never in my life thought buying a correct 'soddin battery would be so much trouble.

So I start the search again - this companies dBase correctly identifies the MOTA even listing the correct colour of my car etc and suggests 2 - both in the S range both will do the job , the;

S4010 / 12V, capacity 80Ah, cold test current 740A / £72:95 - 5 year warranty - free delivery
S5010 / 12V, capacity 85Ah, cold test current 800A / £87:50 - 5 year warranty - free delivery

My one remaining indecision is that though they list 315mm long, 175mm wide, 175mm high, the 315mm is about 27mm / 1.06 inches more than my current battery which will make the 175mm installed height of the battery a full inch closer to the sound deadening material on the underside of the bonnet [radiator side].

Two Three Four Points

.1. - there are many many thousands making new very expensive replacement batteries because you believe what they tell you in their online dBase etc, don't believe it its marketing - check everything yourself

.2. - why waste all these letters of the alphabet ?, because there is an issue getting an 85/800 in the UK to fit a Voyager, and others following me might benefit from a thread that proves you don't have to go for a lesser capacity paying a lot - when you can have the full 85/800 for relatively little compared to the 175/175/278 size

.3. - don't believe what these online 'enter your registration' dataBASE's tell you .. .. they are as good as the wo/man entering the DATA and I found three that Halfords night alone that were wrong, and one [in hope more that expectation] that's correct

 

.4. - Red Top's - - if the Grand Voyagers are a pig for starting in the cold UK

- and if a battery is a store of energy / starting punch
- why are in the UK do they suggest Voyagers use the Optima 4.2 at about £160 ?
- instead of a similar or better spec TAXI battery at half that price

The Optima SPIRAL claim is that :
- It'll last up to 2 times longer than other batteries.
- It can sit unused 3 times longer than other batteries.
- It is over 15 times more resistant to vibration than other batteries.
- It's non-spill-able and can mount in almost any position.
- It provides more power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the vehicle starting process than comparably rated conventional lead acid batteries.

I've read the threads on here about the issue with the Voyager in the UK and / or / lifestyle. Others have chosen and had success with different batteries / choices. Sorry about 'wall' of text

So here's the lazy way : Circumstances / mobility / lacking ability. Fit a red top, goes straight in without moddin, not cheap but about 30% cheaper when they were 1st released.