Air Con Gone?

[cyborx]

hi, i have a voyager 2.5 crd 2003 and last week i had a strange grindy rattle on start up, quick inspection revealed that it was coming from the pulley area but couldnt pin it down.

today while on a short drive i had smoke coming from the bonnet and a burned rubber smell in the cab via the heater vents, i cracked the bonnet and saw that the belt was smoking on the AC pulley.

cutting the journey short i returned home and now i fear the consequences of trying to run it with out an expensive garage job.

any one willing to put my mind at rest with a possible diagnostic (clutch or full compressor and the extra's) and or are there any work arounds as i have never used the aircon and would gladly remove if possible.

Jon.

[nigelhobbs]

Hi Jon what's probably happened is your aircon compressor has seized (common fault ) for some reason the aircon often switches itself on by itself in cold weather refrigerant can remain liquid and enter the compressor as you can't compress a liquid the compressor "hydraulics " and destroys itself inside new one is damm expensive and system needs cleaning out well

You can do without the aircon till April so just get the car running .

First thing to try is disconnect the plug close to the compressor it's a bit fiddly to get at so another way is takeout the mini relay in the power distribution box next the battery Now start the engine look down at the compressor pulley you should see the pulley turning and the centre hub should sit still If it shows any sign of trying to move or starts to get hot the clutch and pulley are seizing

In this case you could try this loosen the bolt on the centre of the compressor hub prise off the end cap now you can see if the clutch is seized Also check this , release the drive belt ( since you saw it smoking inspect it is not damaged ) check the compressor hub is not wobbly you should be able to spin the pulley part nice and free Good luck

[cyborx]

Hi Jon what's probably happened is your aircon compressor has seized (common fault ) for some reason the aircon often switches itself on by itself in cold weather refrigerant can remain liquid and enter the compressor as you can't compress a liquid the compressor "hydraulics " and destroys itself inside new one is damm expensive and system needs cleaning out well

You can do without the aircon till April so just get the car running .

First thing to try is disconnect the plug close to the compressor it's a bit fiddly to get at so another way is takeout the mini relay in the power distribution box next the battery Now start the engine look down at the compressor pulley you should see the pulley turning and the centre hub should sit still If it shows any sign of trying to move or starts to get hot the clutch and pulley are seizing

In this case you could try this loosen the bolt on the centre of the compressor hub prise off the end cap now you can see if the clutch is seized Also check this , release the drive belt ( since you saw it smoking inspect it is not damaged ) check the compressor hub is not wobbly you should be able to spin the pulley part nice and free Good luck

 

wow nigel, a nice concise and informative answer there, exactly what i was looking for and i will be all over it like a rash on a teenagers face in the morning

just a couple of things tho,

1) when you say 'loosen' the centre hub bolt, is that just loosen and not remove to facilitate prising off the end cap?

2) is the mini relay identifiable as the air con relay at all?

thanks very much for your help so far

Jon.

[nigelhobbs]

Yes you have to remove the bolt the cover plate is splined onto the shaft it can be tricky to undo the bolt as it all turns I use an oil filter clamp ,, the relay is identified if you look on the underside of the fuse box cover I believe it's the second from front on the side nearest the wing

[scrufgp]

@@nigelhobbs

hi you seem pretty knowledgeable about the voyager air con system 

i have just had my voyager re gassed 

they garage has told me that the pump(i assume the compressor)is at fault 

they claim my system had 90g in and removed it 

1st time they filled it would only take 450g (no reason given as to why wouldn't fill !)

re done and took 790g 

but air is still not cold and informed compressor/pump fault 

could there be another reason the compressor is not working correctly ??

its on a 2.8 crd 

[nigelhobbs]

Ok first thing to do is see if the clutch on the compressor works start the engine and look down at the compressor (front right side by the drive belts ) you will need to look at the compressor drive pulley when the aircon is on the whole pulley turns with the drive belt when it's off the centre hub of the pulley don't turn DONT put your hands down there when engine running If it's not turning it could be the clutch or another electrical fault

Just briefly about the amount of refrigerant 900 g should be in the system the machine recovers this and measures it I would often expect to recover about 800g if there's no leaks when the refrigerant is recovered the machine vacuums the system for 30mins to remove all the gas and any moisture when it's regassed the machine is set to allow 900g to be sucked into the vacuum I would say if only half that goes in the vacuum is not enough due to a leak or incorrect operation of the equipment. Let us know if the compressor hub is operating and we can go from there

[scrufgp]

hi nigel

thanks for the promp reply

just checked the clutch was not engaged without air con on and did not engage when air con turned on 

the belt was running freely 

just quick question you say my car requires 900g 

the garage in question stated in email that requires 790+/-10

they filled with 800g  

i do not trust anything they have said or done !!!! but unable to prove otherwise without more expense 

but where did you get the 900g info from ?

[bignev]

Hi guys,

Bit late to chip in why the AC comes on in winter - if you direct the airflow to the windscreen or the position just before it the system assumes you are demisting and helps by putting the air con on.

 

Do you have a multimeter to check if the compressor is getting voltage? And maybe try swapping the AC relay for another you know works?

[scrufgp]

ill give it a go and let you know the results 

thanks bignev

[scrufgp]

definatly not the relay swapped out with the fog lamp relay 

both relays are fine 

??????

[Jetfiremuck]

Check for 12v at the compressor plug and a good ground on the other terminal. If both are ok you can try and if careful enough use a screwdriver to push the clutch in while ac is on. If it pulls the clutch in then more than likely you have a weak coil.there should be a gap between the two mating faces ( the thickness of a business card).

[scrufgp]

wow 

jetfiremuck 

have you seen the gap between the inner arch and the pullys ????

i would be lucky to get a business card in there !!!lol

ill check the voltage tomorrow

i doubt im gonna start sticking anything near the pulley while is spinning

ill leave that bit to someone a bit more insane than myself lol (any volunteers ??)

thanks for the advice though 

[nigelhobbs]

Hi again. First to answer about the refrigerant amount. There's different amounts for different vehicles. You should always refer to the plate on the slam panel or on the door pillar if the clutch don't kick in it may be knackered they are often faulty so that's the clutch part not the whole compressor the clutch is replaceable . I often try putting 12 v to the relay output terminal it will kick in the clutch if its working

Bear in mind the aircon is controlled electronically so lots go go faulty , now , if you don't have refrigerant in the system or not enough the pressure switch is off and the electronics won't engage the compressor relay checking the voltage on the compressor plug will show if its switching in if it is the clutch is burnt out the clutch can be replaced without removing the compressor but it can be a fiddly job

Just another thought ,switch on the aircon and while the engine running pull out the mini relay you can feel if it clicks as you take it out

[scrufgp]

hi nigel 

the relay is fine as checked yesterday swapped out with the fog light relay both work fine 

the garage has stated that the is 800g in the system (but say it requires 790+-10) 

i have looked it up online it said my car requires 790g-960g 

would the 800g cause the pressure switch not to kick in ??(as it is at the bottom scale of the fill)

is that physically possible to do the clutch while compressor still bolted to the engine ?? there is possibly 2" max between the pulley and the inner arch !!!

[bignev]

I think what Nigel is trying to get across is that if you pull out the relay - gently - while it's supposed to be on and you feel a clunk you have established that the system is trying to work and it's not a gas problem. It's further down the line towards the compressor and clutch.

[scrufgp]

ahhhhh get ya 

cheers big nev will let you know results 

ps my multi meter is broken so cant check voltage at moment unless i do it with my tounge lol (not happening!!!)

will pick new 1 up and check tommorow 

[scrufgp]

1 quick question 

is it possible to re gas the air con system if the compressor isnt working ??

ie can the old gas be vacuumed out leak tested and re filled !!! 

[bignev]

Quick answer - yes!

[scrufgp]

thnx nev