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#12914 The Lightening Bolt Of Doom!

Posted by Briscoe76 on 08 April 2018 - 02:42 PM

Afternoon all.

 

I thought I would share a bit of a story that happened to me this weekend, in the hope that it will help some others if the same thing happens to them.

 

The model it concerns is any 300C with the Mercedes 3 litre V6 diesel. I'm guessing the newer models with the VM diesel will be totally different.

 

So there we are, on the way to Wakefield from Essex where we live, merrily trotting along the motorway. All of a sudden the dashboard starts to chime repeatedly (as if i've left the headlights on and got out), the engine cuts out completely, and on the dashboard are the engine management light, and the red lightening bolt, with a reverse bracket either side (see attached photo).

 

We coast to a stop onto the hard shoulder, and i try to restart the car. It turns over and over, but refuses to fire up.

 

The missus gets on the phone to the RAC, and we're told there's roughly a two hour wait, so this gives me a bit of time to do some Googling before the patrol arrives.

 

Now then, if you refer to the handbook, it clearly states (even in the diesel supplement) that the lightening bolt light indicates there is a fault with the "Electronic Throttle Control". This is utter nonsense. As it turns out, on the diesel models only, this light refers to a fault with either the Swirl Flap Motor, or the Turbo Actuator. Annoyingly this isnt listed in any of the handbooks that come with the car. Poor show Chrysler!

 

Whenever you turn the ignition on in the car, you can see the arm of the turbo actuator raise up. So if this is the problem, then its very easy to diagnose. I tried this little test, and sure enough, the turbo actuator arm wasn't popping up when my wife turned the ignition on, so naturally I thought this was the problem. Sadly I was wrong.

 

What had happened to my car was this....

 

Over time, the seal around the air intake on the front of the turbo degrades. This allows a small amount of oil to drip onto the swirl flap motor, which is situated directly below. (very poor design). This oil had eventually seeped inside the motor, causing it to short out. This short had instantly popped fuse number 15 under the bonnet, which in turn had caused the engine to shut down while doing 70mph to protect itself. I didn't have the handbook in the car with me sadly, so searching on the internet just have me fuse diagrams of the petrol models, which on those shows its for the injectors. Again as it turns out, fuse 15 in the front fuse box does completely different things on the diesel models. It protects the following.... A/C Clutch, A/C Pressure regulator, Crankcase Vent Heater, EGR Valve, Engine Control Module, Fuel Pump, Glow Plug Module, Swirl Flap Motor, Oxygen sensors..

 

So I replaced the blown fuse with a spare 20 amp, and the car fired straight up. It was now in limp mode, and showing the EML and Lightening light, but it was drive-able up to about 80 mph, albeit a bit slow getting there.

 

By this time, the RAC man had arrived. Now there is nothing worse that someone interfering when a pro is at work, so when he arrived, I left him to it, and he plugged the diagnostics in, and it threw up a ton of errors all related to things connected to this fuse. All except the swirl flap motor. He was a bit confused at first, but then I mentioned that I think it might be the swirl flap motor. He hooked up all his testing gear to it, ran a load of tests, and sure enough confirmed to me that the motor was dead.

 

He then cleared the ECU codes, started the car, and only then did it throw up a specific Swirl Flap related error.

 

HE gave me some spare fuses, and after a quick road test, we were on our merry way albeit in limp mode.

 

Now to fixing it.

 

The cheapest place I could find to supply and fit a new motor quoted £575 plus VAT. The motor is just over £100, but the labour involved is a joke. Anything that is situated inside the VEE of the engine (Swirl Flap Motor, Oil Cooler) etc needs major open heart surgery to fix it. Annoyingly both the motor and the cooler seals have known faults, so they couldn't be in a worse place!

 

If you fancy forking out all that money to have the motor replaced, then that is no doubt the best way in the long run, however there is a quick fix for £1.99 and YES it does work perfectly.

 

Get yourself some 4K7 resistors off of ebay, they are £1.99 for 50. Remove the engine cover, then remove the intake pipe that runs from the airbox to the front of the turbo. Right below the turbo, you will see a black box. This is the offending motor. On the right of the motor is a multi plug held in with a grey clip. Remove the metal bracket above the plug, and pop the plug off.

 

Grab a resistor, and bend the legs in such a way that they will fit snugly into the two centre holes in the plug. Theres 4 in total. Once you have put the resistor in, and you can confirm its in there properly. Tape it up with electrical tape so the resistor wont fall out. Replace the metal bracket, and the air intake pipe, leaving the plug sticking up so you can get to it again in the future if you need to. Then start up the car, and stand back in amazement as both the engine management light and the lightening bolt lights extinguish, and the car comes back out of limp mode.

 

Take the car for a drive, and you will see that it drives as good as new.

 

What you have done here, is fool the car into thinking the swirl flap motor is working again. WHen in fact its now disconnected.

 

You shouldnt notice any difference in performance or fuel economy at all. The emissions may be up slightly when cold is all.

 

So to summarise, if your car cuts out with the lightening bolt on.

 

1) Coast to a stop

2) Curse, swear, have a fag, but don't despair

3) Check fuse 15 in the front fuse box, and replace

4) Start the car and drive home in limp mode - The car will do upto 80mph

5) Order your resistors from Ebay, making sure they are the 4K7 type

6) Still use your car while you are waiting for them to be delivered, remembering that it wont pull away as quick as usual

7) Fit the resistor at the weekend in the rain

8) Stand back, chest puffed out, hands on hips, telling the neighbours you've just saved almost 700 quid :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#857 Known Issues And Faults

Posted by soulie147 on 14 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

Electric Windows seem to be a bit of a bone of contention.

 

Don't let a seller tell you  "It's probably just a fuse"  if one of your windows doesn't work,  there are no fuses.

 

I have spoken to a couple of other Voyager users and they say the same.

Keep the window tracks oiled so there is no resistance for window going up and down.

Seems once the tracks either end dry up,  the motors slow down and that's when problems can start.

I use some 3 in one oil,  not WD40,  and my once slow windows now nip up and down.

 

Just a thought!!


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#16339 Hi! I'm Back!

Posted by vincey832 on 11 May 2019 - 08:19 PM

Yes Nello, it is a Limited, cream leather interior, heated seats but not electric which I find strange, changed the cabin filter today the one that came out was FULL!!! huge sunroof which also was unexpected, I thought it was just a panoramic roof!

My 500X returned 48mpg in town driving and Yes sport mode is entertaining, have you found the 'G' meter??

Sorry the interior photos are poor.Delta.jpg Delta1.jpg Delta2.jpg Delta3.jpg


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#16293 On Autotrader; 1.4 Sr Only 16K Miles

Posted by Deltamike on 06 May 2019 - 06:37 PM

Hi, hopefully this car is going to be mine!  The low mileage is due to it being a Guernsey car, so low miles but perhaps a bit more clutch abuse.  I've put a deposit on it, just waiting now for the dealer to get a UK registration & MOT for it.

 

I would say it hasn't seen many harsh winters and salty roads etc., however I suppose it has lived in a coastal environment as Guernsey is so small you can't really get away from the sea.  I couldn't find any corrosion though, there's a tiny mark on the n/s/r bumper up where it meets the wing and signs of it being stood about (leaves & cobwebs around the under bonnet scuttle area etc) but other than that the exterior is lovely, the wheels & interior are pretty much immaculate.

 

As a long time Lancia fan & owner of an original Delta this one will be getting the re-badge treatment to remove the C-word!


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#8703 Surplus Spring Coils For Free

Posted by Dido on 25 August 2017 - 07:04 PM

This forum has proved indispensable for a Delta owner.
I had the misfortune of a snapped passenger side spring coil, originals come in pairs with a hefty £300 price tag. I am going for an advice I got from the forum for a suspension lowering eipache kit been backed and shipped and hopefully by next week will be fitted OK.
I will have surplus driver side and the 2 back ones old and bit rusty of course (11 reg) but can solve a problem and get a Delta back on the road.
I can find some space in the garage or the attic to keep these in case a mate in the forum needs them, can ship for what it costs.
Do you think we should set a spares thread....
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#17124 On Autotrader; 1.4 Sr Only 16K Miles

Posted by Deltamike on 20 October 2019 - 02:44 PM

Got home from the rig and the nice people at Swansea have written to me.  So right now I am the proud first ever owner of AP12 VXC!

 

Weirdly the V5 says 'first used elsewhere in the UK', which - if you've been following this - we know is B-S & is what caused all the faffing about in the first place; Guernsey isn't in the UK or EU.

 

Never mind, tomorrow will transfer the GAS plate over & that is finally that!

 

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#16421 Hi! I'm Back!

Posted by vincey832 on 27 May 2019 - 12:12 AM

20190525_153725.jpg Delta4.jpg   My Saturday was full on....


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#16222 New Delta Owner

Posted by Lampard on 16 April 2019 - 07:19 PM

Hi . I’m the lucky person who now owns Mikeys Delta. Just got home from collecting it .Mikey has maintained and looked after D3LTX. I have a file 2 inches thick listing everything he’s done .Really nice drive and a credit to him.
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#16022 Sexy

Posted by 7up on 14 March 2019 - 08:07 PM

flip sake, thought it was just me.
Just wasted half a bottle of aftershave.
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#15954 Sliding Doors Problem On Mk5

Posted by karmannski on 06 March 2019 - 08:16 AM

Hi all, 

 

I managed to fix the issue and hope that it will help some of you in the future to save some stress and money. 

 

The problem was bad ground wire G300 that lives under the carpet next to the B pillars on each side of the car. 

 

You must remove plastic covers and lift the carpet, undo the wire and give it a good clean. 

 

I found this video for similar problem, that might help you to picture it. 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=ZSEAVnWP5X0

 

 

Hopefully this is it and I wont have this problem any more. 

 

 

 

 

 

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#15647 Delta Active Suspension

Posted by Dorian on 08 January 2019 - 12:12 AM

Hi

 

Sorry for loooooooooong time to answer. If you wont to go lowered on active susp. Just replace springs nad thats all. Dont touch anything on cpu. Replace spring and njoy

 

2quhh5k.jpg

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#15457 Sump Plug And Washer

Posted by Josboogz on 02 December 2018 - 09:47 PM

Just to confirm got my Delta services and MOT by my local indie. Sailed through MOT:)

Sump plug and washer from mito from Alfa workshop was fine.

Spark plugs were also right, car feels a lot better a lower revs.

Glad I got it done, thanks for the advice chaps
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#14366 Alarm Going Off Whilst Driving!

Posted by Rossocorsa on 21 July 2018 - 12:02 PM

Fixed at last! Got a new siren/control unit off eBay different part number but just the tone of the beep seems slightly different £80 as opposed to about £200 from Fiat, didn't want to risk £200 on something that may not have fixed it! The reason for failure of these units seems to be neither battery failure nor damp. The unit is sealed against damp but this has the side effect of holding in very small amounts of corrosive fumes from the charging of the batteries and this corrodes the circuit board. That's the theory I found on the net and seems plausible
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#14001 Self Bleeding Brakes?

Posted by gordy on 19 June 2018 - 08:48 PM

May I add something here after readig it....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh F/n Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll....Sorry....


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#13697 Cutting Out, Engine Warning Light Intermittent, Garages Finding No Faults?

Posted by Bexb8818 on 21 May 2018 - 07:29 AM

Thanks again everybody - such a knowledgeable forum!! The cars been running absolutely fine since the repair and my paranoia has also calmed down ha! So far so good x
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#13009 The Lightening Bolt Of Doom!

Posted by Briscoe76 on 13 April 2018 - 03:11 PM

Hopefully this will be of some use to someone if the same happens, which sadly I believe it a common thing :unsure:.

 

I've had the resistor in place for a week now, and its been working perfectly. About 300 miles covered faultlessly. It was playing on my mind about the whole thing being held together with electrical tape, so I decided to buy the ready made part from the chaps at www.custom300cshop.co.uk

 

Its the second time Ive used them, and they are really helpful, with fast deliveries.

 

The part I ordered was the swirl flap emulator

 

http://www.custom300...rtemulator.html

 

Its basically a resistor fitted into a purpose made, and very high quality plastic casing, which fits perfectly into the swirl flap plug. This should take the worry out of the electrical tape melting or degrading over time. It was £40, which some may say is a lot for a bit of plastic, however the fact that they have had these specially made, they fit perfectly, and they are a damn sight cheaper than a new swirl flap motor, I think its good value for money.

 

Pictures below if you fancy a look.

 

Cheers

 

Matt.

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#10388 1St Post, Need Help With Starting/cutting Out Issues.

Posted by SJC on 31 January 2018 - 08:55 AM

So garage have fitted 4 new injectors, and it so far so good. They have tested it and cannot replicate the cutting out. I have only driven it short distance, but it starts well (when previously it didn't) and it hasn't cut out, when previously it might have.

 

If anything changes I will get back on here, but for anyone else who is experiencing poor starting and cutting out here is the order of events for me:

 

  • Fuel Filter
  • Pressure relief valve
  • Fuel filter housing and wiring loom
  • Pressure sensor on fuel rail
  • Injector testing
  • New injectors

 

My car has been renamed Triggers Broom!


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#10117 My Delta Review Has Just Been Published :-)

Posted by MikeyRules on 16 January 2018 - 02:48 PM

https://www.parkers....tm_medium=email

 


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#7690 Battery Drain

Posted by QinteQ on 25 May 2017 - 09:26 PM

Battery
 
Battery choice, like choosing a wife, provokes different opinions on what is beautiful. The issue[s] however are simple. You should be looking for about 800CCA over 80aH, this is a physical size that will not fit the CRD battery tray, so get a big one and modify the tray, or get a smaller one and take your UK winter chances. There is a~n~other UK issue of lifestyle, its a use it or lose it condition. If like me you do 2000 miles per annum with two 15 minutes trips once a week you will regardless of battery size / cost never keep that battery charged, the BUS [over 7 or so days] at resting will use more than the 30 minutes the alternator was able to replace.
 
Different people have success with different batteries, I'm sure the UK users will come to your aid with their suggestions, particularly the Scottish contingent who have an even colder climate than I. For myself I originally had a Banner Uni Bull 690 over 70 and my replacement was a Bosch S5 Type 96 at 800 over 80. Best of luck.
 
Power seat fuse[s] : are as stated droppers, as you have had your battery removed for 4 days the 'droppers' should re-set themselves via the BCM/IPM
 
Lifestyle : Two 15 minutes trips once a week.
 
The  higher  the  voltage  applied,  the  faster the battery will charge, charging at too  high a voltage WILL  damage  your  battery. A simple 100Ah open lead acid  battery and a 180A charger connected to the battery discharged to 50% :
 
- @ 50% full @ 13.2V current was 35A
- @ 50% full @ 14,8V current was 160A [improvement of 457%]
- @ 75% full @ 13.2V current was 1A
- @ 75% full @ 14.8V current was 60A [improvement of 6000%]
 
Its not linear so :
 
- two 15 minute periods @ 13.2V is 2 x 15 minute @ 21Ah, compared to ;
- two 15 minute periods @ 14.4V is 2 x 15 minute @ 60Ah, is an improvement  of  about  300%
 
The temperature sensor under the battery will drop [ temperature compensator's on modern alternators will compensate] the voltage output from about 14.0V to about 13.2V. The problem I have with this is the engine compartment soon reaches temp and the battery assumes its fully charged.
 
- 13.20 volts is about what you would expect from [split diode - does not apply to Voyagers, and] this vehicle with a temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.00 volts  is about what you would expect from any typical alternator without a vehicle temp sensor & alternator compensator
- 14.40 volts is what you would expect from a sealed lead acid to prevent [they tend to gas @ 50ºC] excessive gassing
- 14.80 volts is what you can risk pushing it to with an open lead acid to prevent damage to other equipment connected to the battery at the same time
 
NOTE01 : There are IOD 7 functions that are 'live' when you think your car and battery are asleep, they pull a combined 0.025 ampere draw. I used a Maplins cheepo solar panel which cost me £15 at the time, and I have never been unable to start the car since. They are :
 
• Electrical items left on.
• Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.
• Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.
• An internally shorted generator.
• Intermittent shorts in the wiring
Remote key fob
Radio
Heater blower
Folding mirrors
Central locks
Interior lights when the key is in the ignition
 
 
IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST - reproduced from the workshop manual - According to Chrysler's own workshop manual :
 
Allow twenty minutes for the IOD to stabilize and observe the multi-meter reading. The low-amper- age IOD should not exceed twenty-five milliamperes (0.025 ampere). If the current draw exceeds twenty-five milliamperes, isolate each circuit using the fuse and circuit breaker remove-and-replace process in Step 4. The multi-meter reading will drop to within the acceptable limit when the source of the excessive current draw is disconnected. Repair this circuit as required; whether a wiring short, incorrect switch adjustment, or a component failure is at fault
The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from fifteen to twenty five milliamperes (0.015 to 0.025 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper working order. Up to twenty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), digital clock, electronically tuned radio, and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment. A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty one days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty one days or more (stored), remove the IOD fuse from the Integrated Power Module (IPM). This will reduce battery discharging.
 
BatteryMOD
 
I like many of us was an early adopter of AGM, most of us by now will be AGM. It occurs to me that the safe μF we chose for the buttonMOD could be changed to give closer to 14.4V than the 14.1 I was getting. I went 13.9 to 14.1 it would be nice to have that extra .3V, it would make a hell of a difference on a big 80aH even over such a short charging time frame as 15 minutes.
 
I was thinking 22K Ω @ 1/2 watt would be a goodish guesstimate for keeping it under the 14.6[ish] although I'm sure it would be safe a little higher. I'll be happy if I can get to the extra .3's @ 14.4 * Tested .... smack on 14.4-6 winter and 14+ summer over a 6 month period steady across the REV range. This will better recover the winter loss more quickly. Of course in the summer the ALT output will be limited by the lower battery replenishment needs Well pleased !

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#2068 The Same Old Story, Draining Battery,chrysler Grand Voyager 2006

Posted by Cheerful1 on 12 February 2015 - 05:19 PM

I would put money on it being a faulty stereo amplifier, which is located in the right hand rear quarter panel. VArious other circuits run through this too, like the alarm system. I had this intermittent problem for about two years, until it was properly diagnosed by a good auto electrician, replaced, and never a flicker of a problem since.


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